maagden en de Islam

[Baruch]

Wat is het toch met maagden en Islam? Heeft dit te maken met de misdaden van Mohammed als krijgheer dat hier zoveel in de Islam over te vinden is? Is het iets anders? Of is volgens de Islam het hoogste wat een mens (lees: man) spiritueel bereiken kan het ontmaagden van maagden? Verklaringen?

Groetjes.

[Kitty]

En mag die ene moslim dan al die meer dan 70 maagden ontmaagden? En is dat iets om voor te willen sterven?

[collegavanerik]

het zijn geen 70 maagden maar 72 druiventrossen

Die Syro-Aramäische Lesart des Koran van Christoph Luxenberg

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Luxenberg

[Kitty]

Ja dat is bekend van die druiven, alleen is de teleurstelling van de gelovige moslims hier nog niet doorgedrongen.

[Baruch]

Wat grappig, dus alles berust op een vertaalfout? En wordt er dan verder in de Koran nog met maagden geschermt?

[Blueflame]

Ja dat is bekend van die druiven, alleen is de teleurstelling van de gelovige moslims hier nog niet doorgedrongen.

Druiven zijn ook best lekker.
Zouden zij daar wijn van mogen maken ?
Mvg.

[Kitty]

Ja dat is bekend van die druiven, alleen is de teleurstelling van de gelovige moslims hier nog niet doorgedrongen.

Druiven zijn ook best lekker.
Zouden zij daar wijn van mogen maken ?
Mvg.

Zodat ze zich kunnen bezatten vanwege de teleurstelling over die maagden?

[FW]

Er zijn daar al rivieren van wijn.

[collegavanerik]

Wat grappig, dus alles berust op een vertaalfout? En wordt er dan verder in de Koran nog met maagden geschermt?

deze link gaat diep in op de vertaling

http://www.livius.org/opinion/Luxenberg.htm

The by now world famous story about 'virgins or grapes' also works like this. Luxenberg starts with Q 44:54 وَ زَوَّجْنَاهُم بِحُورٍ عِينٍ wa zawwajnahum bi hur 'in, 'We shall wed them to maidens with large, dark eyes'. For زوجناهم zawwajnahum, 'we shall wed them' he has a different, and purely Arabic, alternative: روحناهم rawwahnahum 'we shall let them rest'. It's a difference of only two diacritical dots and in rasm it's identical.[15] The interpretation now used by muslims was a result of the preposition bi being read as Arabic 'to'. 'We shall let them rest to' doesn't sound as logical as 'We shall wed them to'. Hence the Arabic reading of bi. But in Syriac bi also means 'under' or 'among' and that makes the translation 'we shall let them rest among...' a very good possibility.
If this reading is accepted, hur 'in cannot refer to virgins any more. Furthermore, the way in which hur 'in is traditionally translated requires some idiomatic acrobatics. Literally hur is a plural of the female adjective 'white' (حوراء hawra'). So it could refer to white women, but the object might just as well be a female word in the grammatical sense only.

[Devious]

Er zijn daar al rivieren van wijn.

......... waar je niet aangeschoten van wordt, DUS WAT HEB JE ERAAN???????

[HarrieMe]

Jongens, meisjes, je vertelt aan een kind van 3 toch ook niet dat er geen sint nicolaas bestaat. Zo vertel je aan een moslim niet dat er een vertaalfout in de koran staat. Wat maakt het uit hoe het sprookje vertaald is? Of hebben jullie stiekem lol dat ze zichzelf voor de verkeerde ideeën opblazen?

[Tsjok45]

ik heb eens ergens gelezen dat een "vrouwelijke " zelfmoordenares /martelares ,
door Allah vlug wordt veranderd in een man , zodat ze vooralsnog ook nog wat druiventrossen kan ontmaagden in het paradijs ..... Het schijnt dat dit "theologisch" verhaaltje in egypte de ronde doet bij de moslim-broeder ....
Weet iemand daar iets meer van of is het slechts een broodje aap ?


Deze heb ik al :

OVER DE HOURI'S
PA religious leaders teach that the 72 Dark Eyed Virgins is reward of Martyr
http://pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_VirginsEnglish.asx

"When the Shahid meets his Maker, all his sins are forgiven from the first
gush of blood. He is exempted from the torments of the grave (Judgment); he
sees his place in paradise, he is shielded from the great shock, and marries
72 Dark Eyed (Virgins)." [Dr. Ismail al-Radouan, PA TV, August 17, 2001]
The PA grants Shahid (Martyr) status to all those killed in conflict
including suicide bombers and other terrorists.

OVER DE MAJAHEDAT
Western news media offer a litany of excuses for women suicide bombers (= mujahedat /women devoted to jihad– )describing them as victims of rape, male domination and intimidation,
religious manipulation, impoverishment, and incited after loss of family members.
Women bombers thus are cloaked in the Western image of the "weaker sex," docile and benign marching to the whims of their fathers, husbands, or imams.

Interviews with failed bombers, however, indicate that
Islamic women become terrorists for the same reasons as men –
for glory, for religious zealotry and for economic compensation to their families through martyr payments funded by Arab leaders ....


Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the religious leader of Islamist militant group Hamas, issued a fatwa, or religious rule, that gave permission to women to
participate in suicide attacks as well as listing the rewards in "Paradise" that these female martyrs would receive upon their deaths.

Wafa Samir al-Biss
"My dream was to be a martyr. I believe in death,"

A Palestinian woman, unsuccessful in detonating her bomb, was arrested by Israeli security and stated that religious authorities had taught her about
the reward for women martyrs, which is to be the purest and most beautiful form of angels at the highest level possible in heaven.

Woman says her planned suicide terror would have made her one of the Maidens who would marry a Martyr
http://pmw.org.il/asx/PMW_Rania.asx
Q. Had you succeeded in [your suicide] mission, what would have been your reward?
A. The reward was from Allah, in Paradise.
The female Martyrdom-seeker becomes one of the Dark-Eyed Maidens(Houri's ) , and she marries one of the Martyrs.

Ayat Allah Kamil,
why she had wanted to become a martyr:
"Because of my religion. I'm very religious. For the holy war [jihad] there's no difference between men and women shaid [martyrs]."
According to the Koran, male martyrs are welcomed to Paradise by 72 beautiful virgins.
..... a woman martyr
"will be the chief of the 72 virgins, the fairest of the fair".

BEKEERLINGEN
Islamists are recruiting women, and in particular, converts to Islam.
These converts tend to be easy to radicalize and willing to sacrifice themselves for the sake of Allah.
The concept that Allah has promised rewards for those who glorify and fight for Allah in times of peace and war is instilled in converts.

Although European counter-terrorist units are reluctant to discuss any aspect of their work, they estimate that 70 percent of converts to Islam are women,
and that women make up at least 23 percent of the present day suicide bombers.
An analyst at the Brussels-based European Strategic Intelligence and Security Centre, opined that Muriel Degauque
"had a classic profile for a convert to radical Islam.
She had a drug problem when she was younger; she had no real job; and was not very close to her family ... we can expect more cases."
Edwin Bakker, a Dutch terrorist expert in The Hague, added that studies show suicide bombers as people seeking a new purpose in life.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_suicide_bomber
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article ... 5907.shtml
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/0 ... ex_np.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... wmid26.xml
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.ar ... rewards%22

[PietV.]

ik heb eens ergens gelezen dat een "vrouwelijke " zelfmoordenares /martelares ,
door Allah vlug wordt veranderd in een man , zodat ze vooralsnog ook nog wat druiventrossen kan ontmaagden in het paradijs ..... Het schijnt dat dit "theologisch" verhaaltje in egypte de ronde doet bij de moslim-broeder ....
Weet iemand daar iets meer van of is het slechts een broodje aap ?

Geen idee Tsjok. Ik ben ook nog een paar vragen tegen gekomen.


1) What if the bomber wants girls with more experience?
2) What if one virgin is no good in bed? Does she get replaced or is he stuck with 71?
3) If he's gay, does he get male virgins?
4) What if he's celibate? What does he get?
5) What if he hasn't reached puberty yet? Does he get 72 Xboxes till he comes of age?
6) If he's bi, does he get 36 of each?
7) If he blows himself up while building the bomb, does he still get credit?
8) What do you call a relationship with 72 women, a menage-a-soixante-deux?
9) Are they like 72 wives or 1 wife and 71 concubines?
10) What if he's ugly or smells bad and the virgins don't want anything to do with him?
11) Is there viagra in paradise? Ya know, just in case?
12) Is there an age of consent?
13) When they're deflowered, do they get replaced by new virgins or are they "born again"?
14) Do they become his common-law wives eventually?
15) If he has a tryst with a 73rd virgin, do the others consider it cheating?
16) Do the virgins have a union? If so, can they strike if they're not satisfied?
17) Is there a temp agency that replaces virgins if they call in sick?
18) What if the bomber's into animals? Does he get accommodated?
19) Why 72? Is 71 too few? Is 73 too many?
20) If it was a female bomber, how do the male virgins prove their virginity?
21) What happens when paradise runs out of virgins?
22) Can a bomber make reservations on specific virgins before he blows himself up?
23) If there are no virgins available, is he put on a waiting list?
24) If he's a catholic priest, does he get 72 little boys?
25) Would you call a female bomber a bombshell?
26) Would you call a child bomber a bombino?
27) Is it not 73 out of respect for Barry Bond's home run record?
28) If the bomber previously dated one of the virgins, does it get awkward?
29) Do they have a bomb squad in paradise just in case one of the charges didn't go off?
30) Did they start using female bombers because they ran out of virgins for the guys?
31) If she's a lesbian, do they "convert" the virgins, or will straight girls suffice her?
32) Does a hermaphrodite bomber get hermaphrodite virgins?
33) If so, are there 72 available?
34) If they run out of virgins, do they get inflatable dolls till they find more?
35) If a bomber finds an infidel in paradise, can he blow him up and get 72 more virgins?
36) Could the Koran have had a typo and it actually provided just one 72 year old virgin?
37) Is Muslim hell being one of the 72 virgins?
38) Instead of 72 guys, would a female bomber settle for 1 man who does dishes and garbage?
39) Do the bombers go broke on Valentine's Day?
40) If he's monogamous, does he pick one of the 72 or does he get a supermodel?
41) What if he doesn't like either gender? Does he just klutz around in paradise?
42) Eternity is long, and eventually he'll grow bored of his 72 women. What happens then?
43) How does he pick the 72 to begin with? Lottery? Beauty pageant? Police lineup?
44) Is he allowed to covet his neighbor's virgins?
45) Do the virgins have agents and/or contracts?
46) If so, can a virgin request to be traded or put on waivers if she's unhappy?
47) What should he say if one of the virgins asks "Does this Burka make me look fat?"
48) If he gives the wrong answer, is he uh, screwed?
49) How is anyone expected to handle a catfight amongst 72 women?
50) Did the 9/11 hijackers who didn't know they were going to die get 72 virgins too?
51) Are scouts employed to find virgin talent?
52) Do the virgins ever retire, or do they remain virgins forever?
53) If they retire, what kind of pension plan do they get?
54) Wouldn't it be interesting if they're virgins because they're ugly?
55) So is it 72 Muslim girls or like 1 virgin from every culture?
56) Wouldn't it be sweet if Lorena Bobbit got hired as one of the virgins?
57) What does Gloria Steinem have to say about all this?
58) When he gets home, does he have to say "How was your day?" to all 72 virgins?
59) Do they have counseling for sexual addiction in paradise?
60) If the virgins start hogging the remote, is he in hell?
61) They must take up an entire theater when they go to the movies, huh?
62) Are there restaurants in paradise that can accommodate a reservation for 73?
63) If a virgin suffers from multiple personalities, is she considered two virgins?
64) Does he get all the virgins at once, or do they have an installment plan?
65) Is the bomber entitled to subsitutes, exchanges, or refunds?
66) What if all the king's horses and all the king's men can't put the bomber together again?
67) Is "not tonight, dear, I have a headache" a valid excuse in paradise?
68) Do the virgins come with a warranty?
69) If so, does paradise replace defective parts and provide on-site service?
70) What do you call a lifetime warranty if you're dead?
71) Do siamese twin bombers get 144 virgins?
72) Who gets to clean up all those nasty sheets?

[stropke]

het zijn geen 70 maagden maar 72 druiventrossen

Die Syro-Aramäische Lesart des Koran van Christoph Luxenberg

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christoph_Luxenberg

Héhé die kank ook bij de Aldi krijge,
Es vragen of ze dees week in reclame zijn...

[MOODY BLUE]

Misschien dat Mustafa hier ook get fijne van weet