Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

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egmond codfried
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Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door egmond codfried »

Gaarne kom ik in gesprek met personen die JANE AUSTEN lezen en kunnen bevestigen dat al haar personages sallow (licht bruin), brown, very brown en black zijn. Dit heeft niets met racisme van mijn kant te maken, want men kan ook op een constructieve wijze over kleur en kleurverschillen praten.

Mr Crawford: absolutely plain, black and plain.
Mr. Elton: spruce, black and smiling
Mary Crawford: brown
Catharine Morland: sallow
Mrs. Ferrars: sallow
Mr. Tilney: brown
Emma Watson: very brown
Eliza Bennet, brown, rather tanned
Miss Lamb: mulattin

Verder heb ik door de context te volgen vastgesteld dat fanny Price wel een mulattin moet zijn. Maar het bovenstaande lijstje kan men gewoon letterlijk in de eigen boeken van Austen teruglezen; men hoeft mij niet te geloven.
Mijn huidige avatar is Queen Charlotte Sophie van Mecklenburg Strelitz (1744-1818), echtgenote van George III; beschreven als ‘a true mulatto face.’ Hertogin van Brunswick-Lüneburg en keurvorstin van het Heilige Roomse Rijk.
egmond codfried
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door egmond codfried »

Om het denkproces op gang te helpen....

quote: The Watsons
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emma Watson was not more than of the middle height, well made and plump, with an air of healthy vigour. Her skin was very brown, but clear, smooth, and glowing, which, with a lively eye, a sweet smile, and an open countenance, gave beauty to attract, and expression to make that beauty improve on acquaintance. […]The next morning brought a great many visitors. It was the way of the place always to call on Mrs. Edwards the morning after a ball, and this neighbourly inclination was increased in the present instance by a general spirit of curiosity on Emma`s account, as everybody wanted to look again at the girl who had been admired the night before by Lord Osborne. Many were the eyes, and various the degrees of approbation with which she was examined. Some saw no fault, and some no beauty. With some her brown skin was the annihilation of every grace, and others could never be persuaded that she was half so handsome as Elizabeth Watson had been ten years ago. -The Watsons[/quote

quote: Sense and sensibility
Miss Dashwood had a delicate complexion, regular features, and a remarkably pretty figure. Marianne was still handsomer. Her form, though not so correct as her sister's, in having the advantage of height, was more striking; and her face was so lovely, that when, in the common cant of praise, she was called a beautiful girl, truth was less violently outraged than usually happens. Her skin was very brown, but, from its transparency, her complexion was uncommonly brilliant; her features were all good; her smile was sweet and attractive; and in her eyes, which were very dark, there was a life, a spirit, an eagerness, which could hardily be seen without delight. From Willoughby their expression was at first held back, by the embarrassment which the remembrance of his assistance created. But when this passed away, when her spirits became collected, when she saw that to the perfect good breeding of the gentleman, he united frankness and vivacity, and above all, when she heard him declare, that of music and dancing he was passionately fond, she gave him such a look of approbation, as secured the largest share of his discourse to herself for the rest of his stay.-Sense and sensibility
Mijn huidige avatar is Queen Charlotte Sophie van Mecklenburg Strelitz (1744-1818), echtgenote van George III; beschreven als ‘a true mulatto face.’ Hertogin van Brunswick-Lüneburg en keurvorstin van het Heilige Roomse Rijk.
egmond codfried
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door egmond codfried »

Een recensie van een ander onderzoek van mij. De opinies zijn vooral die van de schrijver van dit stuk!
Dit betreft een eerste versie van mijn onderzoek dat leidde naar mijn blauw bloed is zwart bloed theorie (1500-1789), maar ik had nog niet in de gaten op welke enorme schaal revisionisme had toegeslagen.

http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/2009/10/ ... ility.html
Mijn huidige avatar is Queen Charlotte Sophie van Mecklenburg Strelitz (1744-1818), echtgenote van George III; beschreven als ‘a true mulatto face.’ Hertogin van Brunswick-Lüneburg en keurvorstin van het Heilige Roomse Rijk.
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Vilaine
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door Vilaine »

Het lijkt wel of ze zichzelf beschrijft:

"... her's was the first face I can remember thinking pretty ... Her hair, a darkish brown, curled naturally – it was in short curls round her face...Her face was rather round than long – she had a bright but not a pink colour – a clear brown complexion and very good hazel eyes. Her hair, a darkish brown, curled naturally, it was in short curls around her face. She always wore a cap ... before she left Steventon she was established as a very pretty girl, in the opinion of most of her neighbours."

Caroline Austen,
Jane's niece


Meer beschrijvingen beschrijven haar als een "licht getinte" brunette.
Despite the high cost of living.....
it remains popular.
egmond codfried
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door egmond codfried »

Dat is waar ik naar toe wil. Jane Austen was niet alleen donkerbruin, maar haar 3 en 4 families in 'an Country Village' waren ook zwarte en gekleurde mensen. Zij schreef, als men haar onderwerpen goed begrijpt, over specifieke problemen van zwarte en gekleurde Europeanen voor, tijdens en na de Franse Revolutie. Het probleem is waarom de drie duizend geleerde boeken over haar geen enkele aandacht hieraan besteden, dat men ons een afschuwelijke schets toont en men blonde actrices de rol van 'very brown' Marianne Dashwood laat spelen. Mijn onderzoek is helemaal legitiem en alleen mensen die hechten aan de onwaarheid over zwarten in Europa zullen bezwaren kunnen hebben.
Mijn huidige avatar is Queen Charlotte Sophie van Mecklenburg Strelitz (1744-1818), echtgenote van George III; beschreven als ‘a true mulatto face.’ Hertogin van Brunswick-Lüneburg en keurvorstin van het Heilige Roomse Rijk.
egmond codfried
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Lid geworden op: 25 aug 2010 11:06

Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door egmond codfried »

Afbeelding

[Cassandra Austen (1773-1845), or Jane Austen (1775-1817)]


WAS JANE AUSTEN (1775-1817) BLACK?

By Egmond Codfried


The glory of nations is chiefly derived from their writers wrote Dr. Samuel Johnson (1708-1784). And many around the world deeply enjoy Jane Austen’s books and letters, of which the interpretation is constantly fine-tuned and made into movies and TV series. They study human behaviour and are satirical of human failings. Her style was based on Dr. Samuel Johnson’s: ‘cool, well-ordered, witty and incisive observations of life.’ But because Austen’s live straddled the decisive period around the French Revolution (1789-1795), her life, her books and surviving letters can also be mined for her ideas about the radical changing times. Although she wrote novels in the Romantic fashion: ‘The passion of Romantism did not inspire her.’ So I, because of my research interests, look for Austen’s ideas about the changing views on the emergence and the controversial role of Race. In this light, the fact that there is no credible portrait of Britain’s finest nineteen-century female writer should be considered as highly problematic. Jane Austen, properly read, might grow into our greatest activist in proclaiming the glory of Blacks.

Afbeelding

[Scene by William Hogarth]

Austen is very insistent about the brown and very brown complexion and the special beauty of her heroines. There can be no doubt that she is writing about brown, very brown and black skinned persons belonging to the gentry and aristocracy. Henry Crawford in Mansfield Park (1814) is ‘absolutely plain, black and plain.’ His description can be compared to the Moor, always a Classical African, in many eighteen-century scenes by painter Wiiliam Hogarth (1697-1764), which show a Moor in the middle of a noble assembly. The Moor, often disguised as a servant, is one symbol of blue blood, and informs us about the true looks and high birth of the company. In Northanger Abbey (1818) two women talk about there favourite complexion in a man: ‘dark or fair.’ This is answered as: ‘I hardly know. I never much thought about it. Something between both, I think. Brown—not fair, and not very dark.’ The other woman prefers light eyes and likes ‘a sallow better then any other.’ Marianna Dashwood from Sense and Sensibility (1811) is Austen’s heroine who is ‘so lovely,’ ‘uncommonly brilliant’ and a delightful beauty: ‘that when, in the common cant of praise, she was called a beautiful girl, truth was less violently outraged then usually happens.’ But only after all this staggering praise we are told that: ‘Her skin was very brown.’ The most famous of Austen’s heroines, Eliza Bennet from Pride and Prejudice (1813) is described deprecatingly by her rival in love, Miss Caroline Bingley, as: ‘grown brown and coarse’ and ‘her complexion has no brilliancy.’ However, Mr. Darcy, their love interest; does not find any fault in any of that but perceives her as ‘rather tanned’ because of her ‘travelling in summer.’ From The Watsons, we learn about its heroine Emma Watson: ‘Her skin was very brown, but clear, smooth, and glowing.’

Austen is clearly not talking about whites who happen to be more or less tanned. In a letter to her sister Cassandra Austen she mentions a Mrs. Blount with: ‘Her Pink husband & Fat neck’ (20-21 November 1800). White skin is referred to as ‘Pink.’ She rather discusses the many shades we see among Blacks, in a way that Blacks today have abandoned. We consider this talk today as colorism, the dangerous antagonism between ‘good’ and ‘bad complexion.’ So naturally Emma Watson’s beauty does not ‘improve on acquaintance’ with everybody. Austen states: ‘Some saw no fault, and some no beauty.’ And: ‘With some her brown skin was the annihilation of every grace.’ But Miss Austen is clearly not fooling around when she discusses complexion. In Persuasion (1818) she never mentions brown or black complexion, but subtle yet with devastating force mentions ‘Gowland’ twice. She refers to real life Gowland’s Lotion, a skin-bleaching potion introduced in 1760. So it had grown into quite an institution in her lifetime. Although advertised as a panacea for many beauty problems, the real purpose was to bleach a black or brown skin by peeling with lead white, a corrosive ingredient. Lead white was also used during the Renaissance by Elizabeth I and Catherine de Medici, Queen of France, as a whitening make-up and bleaching agent named Venetian Ceruse or Spirits of Saturn. By the addition of mercury derivates, another corrosive substance, to Gowland’s, it also functions as our Botox today, as it paralyses the facial muscles and causes a youthful radiance, but an immobile facial expression. Both substances are poisonous and their constant and excessive use attracted censure by scientists. Austen ascribes the use of Gowland to Sir Walter Elliot, the father of the heroine Anne Elliot. Her personage had ‘an elegance of mind and sweetness of character.’ She had taken after her mother who was: ‘ an excellent woman, sensible and amiable.’ Austen introduced Sir Elliot as: ‘Handsome with the blessing of beauty,’ through Anne’s eyes, and as a ‘failing’ and ‘conceited, silly father.’ So we may assume Austen decidedly rejects the skin-bleaching practises by the black and brown Europeans in her books.

Afbeelding

[Eliza de Feuillide (1761-1813), Jane Austen's first cousin]

The brown beauty of Emma and Eliza and the very brown beauty of Marianne and Emma Watson are reflected in the six detailed descriptions of Jane Austen by her family and friends. Even towards the controversial nature of the views of black and brown looks that we can derive from her books. Austen is described as: ‘in complexion she was a clear brunette with a rich colour’ (1864) and: ‘- she had a bright but not a pink colour – a clear brown complexion’ and: ‘she had clear brown skin.’ But the language also becomes cryptic: ‘Her pure and eloquent blood spoke in her cheeks,’ and needs deciphering. Her niece Eliza de Feuillide (1761-1813) married a French aristocrat, who was guillotined during the French revolution (1789-1795), describes her own looks as: ‘add to all this a very share of Tan with which I have contrived to heighten the native brown of my Complexion, during a two years residence in the country.’ One takes notice of the self-deprecating tone of voice, which is also encountered in the works by contemporary Isabelle de Charrière (1740-1805). She described herself as: ‘She does not have the white hands, she knows this and even jokes about it, but its not a laughing matter.’(1764) And in Lettres écrites de Lausanne (1785) her heroine Cécile is described by her doting mother as: ‘she would have been beautiful if her throat was whither.’ Jane Austen died young from a still unidentified disease and she wrote in a final letter: ‘I’m recovering my Looks a little, which have been bad enough, black and white & every wrong colour.’(1817)

Afbeelding

[Maria Jacoba van Goor (1687-1737), Isabelle de Charriere's grandmother]

The prevailing emphasise on brown and very brown skin in both her works and the way she herself was described, forces us to consider Jane Austen’s personal identity as Black. And there we are double crossed by the absence of an authenticated portrait which shows her own rich brown complexion and prettiness. In my ongoing research, my Blue Blood is Black Blood (1500-1789) Theory (2005), I have already encountered some so-called ‘missing’ portraits, which however do exist, or existing portraits which are not put on display in a museum because of African looks, or those portraits which show the same person who is described as ‘noir et basané’ (black brown) and ‘chimney sweeper’ as a blue eyed, white man. This scandalous falsehood we also encounter in the present day depictions of Austen’s personages by white actors and actresses. Marianne Dashwood, who was ‘very brown,’ is played by the lovely Miss Kate Winslet, who is blond and white. Miss Jennifer Ehle is white and has ethnic looks, derived from her Rumanian grandmother, but does not look ‘brown’ nor ‘’rather tanned’ as Austen describes Eliza Bennet.

Apparently, I’m not the only one who has discovered Jane Austen’s blackness. Yet where I welcome this as a valuable addition to my research after Blacks and coloured Europeans who were a dominating elite, others seek to deny, hide and submerge. They are denying Blacks the glory that derives from Black achievement and Black writers. The one un-authenticated portrait, which was acquired in 2000 by The Jane Austen Trust is supposed to show Cassandra Austen, but can be considered to be Jane’s, as it perfectly conforms to all her descriptions. Yet she will not be identified by them as Black because eurocentrism claims ‘There were no Blacks!’ Or what one might perceive as a Black is most likely a ‘Black Caucasian’ and not a ‘True Negro,’ they say. As some might know that according to eurocentrism Africans should be divided in African Caucasians, who might be pitch black but display no prognatism, and the ‘True Negroes’ who are prognastic. Apparently an unforgivable offence, we will see. And eurocentrism will blithely insist that there is no proof because we cannot employ biometric pliers to measure Austen’s skull to proof her a Negress. Or some easily disproved nonsense about Blacks who cannot be rendered in paintings. And their final obstacle is demanding from a researcher a Black ancestor, who must be named. And has to be a ‘True Negro’ who is a SSA, from below the ‘South of Sahara.’. Someone, just like Alexander Pushkin’s great-grandfather, Abraham Hannibal. Or Alexander Dumas’ father, General Dumas whose mother was an enslaved woman from Martinique. Yet Africa is just across the very narrow Straights of Gibraltar and Africans first arrived 43.000 years ago in Europe. Who knows their names? Whites, descendents of Albino’s who are in my experience just normal and healthy people who need a sunblock, are only 6000 years in Europe, coming from Central Asia. But mostly whites claim, unconvincingly, not to be the least interested in whether Jane Austen was white or Black, but rather focus on her work and personality. As if personality is not also informed by an ethnic identity. As if any writer can be studied without some reference to the personal context. Jane Austen also wrote about persons whose fortune was derived from slavery, as Isabelle de Charrière did and struggled with her own wealth. Fanny Price’s outburst against slavery is met with silence, in Mansfield Park, by the slaveholding Bertram family. Reverend George Austen (1731-1805), Jane’s father, acted as a trustee for a plantation on Antigua owned by Mr. Nibbs. Jane Austen was perfectly in the know about emerging views of Blacks. Does she refer to this when she cries out in a letter to her sister: ‘If I’m a wild Beast I cannot help it’ and ‘It is not my own fault.’(1813) The Moor, the Classical African who symbolised blue blood and black superiority was demoted to the base of the evolutionary ladder, now a creature between the superior white Human and Apes. This part also highlights the role of European Blacks in exploiting Africans in slavery. Yet eurocentrism blocks any dialogue or argument as if these views are dangerous and extremely pernicious and would threaten the very fundaments of the whole western civilisation. Any solicitation is met with rudeness and next dead silence. And even sabotage by library workers, as I have found out. Interesting is that on the Internet this portrait is shown out of focus which renders her prognastic lips fuzzy. And therein I find the reason for suppressing her portrait: Jane Austen displays clear Classical African features that make her Blackness undeniable.

Afbeelding

[Scientific Racism]

The suppression of Jane Austen’s true portrait had already started during her lifetime and apparently no public portrait was issued by her in 1811 when she debuted with Sense and Sensibility. She knew that her ‘peculiar charm,’ which pointed to ‘the purity and eloquence of her blood’, put her straight in the line of fire of revolutionaries who had violently brought down the Ancien Regime. This regime I have defined as Reversed Apartheid. Sadly, I sometimes have to point out to some that South African Apartheid was an unjust and a wholly evil system. Likewise Reversed Apartheid, but this Black and Coloured nation shaped Europe in the way we know it today. My research shows a great and universal scramble to amend ancestral portraits to hide Blackness, even to the point of defacement. Now I can safely push back this panic to at least around 1811. I have concluded that there most certainly were many portraits of Jane Austen adorning the walls of the stately homes of family and friends were she was received as a favourite relative and guest. Yet they displayed her Classical African features, a mark of ‘her pure blood,’ and thus became a liability. Black Europeans who considered their blackness as proof of their superiority over whites, who they derisively called ‘Pink’ or ‘t Graauw’ (the Grey’s), were bullied into abstaining the propagation of Black Supremacy. As total revisionism was aimed at, I seriously doubt any documents toward this directive will be found. They would have defeated the revisionist purpose.

Afbeelding

[A book bound in human leather]

I consider the horrible practice of using white human skin for bookbinding’s by the Black nobility as further proof how some viewed their white subjects. But they still alluded to their black superiority with jewellery and imagery with Moors and what I perceive as cryptic phrases: ‘blue blood,’ ‘not the white hands’ or ‘the purity and eloquence of her blood.’ Austen’s heroines could have only been Blacks as she was Black and her pride was based on her blackness. She considered herself through her accomplishments as a writer combined with her blackness as a true noble. The titled aristocrats are often portrayed in her books as: ‘ill-bred’, ‘sickly and crossed,’ ‘cold,’ ‘insignificant’ and ‘plain and awkward.’ And even the final blow by sweet Anne Elliot: ‘they are nothing.’ Jane Austen who was Black did not renounce Black Superiority if it was enforced by personal brilliance by applying ones talents to become accomplished. Mr. Darcy, the ideal hero who ravaged Eliza Bennet’s heart, was extremely rich, but not a titled noble. His fortune was achieved by trade, thus by accomplishment. And his housekeeper said: `He is the best landlord, and the best master,’ Austen’s family and publishers would have been perceived as promoters of Ancien Regime values and would have placed themselves in great danger if they would have promoted her portrait. Even Austen herself might have experienced ridicule, hatred, violence and harsh rejection based on her Black appearance. Yet through restorations the nobility slashed its way back into power but was finally subdued in 1848. And only then whites came into power, whitewashed European history, and claimed the glory like any conqueror would usurp the spoils of war.

Afbeelding

[Queen Alexandra (1844-1925)(1923) at 79 years of age]

The absence of a portrait of Jane Austen and the portrayal of her personages by white actresses should be viewed as the ongoing revisionism of history. Any European museum should be regarded as a Church of Revisionism because they show whitened copies, over painted authentic portraits and outright fake images of the black kings and nobles. A practice facilitated by these persons themselves by issuing whitened portraits. A look they did achieved in real life with white face paint and bleaching crèmes. It seems that the views from whites about Blacks were frozen in 1760, when nationhood was hence identified by colour. Queen Alexandra (1844-1925) (1902-1910) was famous for her beauty in advanced age, achieved by a practice called enamelling. She preferred an application of paint which made her pink all over. This technique also prescribed the careful application of blue pigments to the temple veins to heighten the illusion of a translucent, super white skin. Her rather lifeless and ethereal look suggests paralysed facial muscles by mercury derivates, as well. This miraculous vision of beauty was then further enhanced with mysterious veils that blurred the view. Yet there are photographs which show her and her mother, Queen Louise of Denmark, as brown and frizzy haired. Her husband, Edward VII was a son of Queen Victoria, who was a granddaughter of Queen Charlotte-Sophie whose ‘true mulatto’ and ‘brown’ looks were deemed ‘propagandistic’ and gave rise to many comments. Some over painted portraits of the nobility show a solid pink face, and excessive, gruesome blue veins in the face and on the hands. This undoubtedly gave rise to the nonsense about the nobility to be very white and that blue blood meant blue veins showing. It could only be understood that frightened and indoctrinated coloured Europeans took to protecting themselves from the sun with umbrellas, veils and gloves, as Blacks tan easily.

This article should be understood in connection with my Blue Blood is Black Blood (1500-1789) thread elsewhere on this site and in Google. Any writer writes less then he knows; for sake of brevity, yet all my conclusions are based in facts and argument. Voltaire was accused by his detractors of ‘inventing his own facts.’ What are facts? I reject eurocentrism which is supposedly based in ‘fact’ and ‘empirism’ yet its a fake and evil science to hide the traumatic fact that Europe was a Black Civilisation, with Blacks despotically oppressing whites. Nobody observed Evolution, no one reproduced Evolution, and there are many ‘Missing Links,’ yet to Evolutionist, the Evolution Theory is a fact, as it better explains nature and human descent then Genesis’s Believers can. No one should believe anything; they should research everything by Google. The more sources to confirm a fact, the better. I will post more sources and welcome serious questions from readers. Whites seem to perceive Blacks as biased and therefore not capable to research these matters. But whites do not seem to suffer the same bias when researching the same matter. How come?

Egmond Codfried
The Hague
June 2010 [/QB][/QUOTE]
Mijn huidige avatar is Queen Charlotte Sophie van Mecklenburg Strelitz (1744-1818), echtgenote van George III; beschreven als ‘a true mulatto face.’ Hertogin van Brunswick-Lüneburg en keurvorstin van het Heilige Roomse Rijk.
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door The Prophet »

Ik neem aan dat je bekend bent met de ziekte van Addison, waar Austen aan leed?
Het kenmerkende teken is de oranje/bruine verkleuring (hyperpigmentatie) van de huid en de grijze verkleuring van de slijmvliezen. Ook de handpalm en handlijnen kunnen oranje/bruin verkleuren. Hyperpigmentatie komt voor bij 92 procent van de patiënten, en is dus een cruciaal diagnostisch criterium.
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziekte_van_Addison

Dat in de 19e eeuw onwelgevallige zaken onder het tapijt werden geveegd, dat geloof ik nog wel. Maar zo'n onderwerp als dit, daar houdt men tegenwoordig toch niet meer de mond over? Er is toch geen complot gaande?

Heb je gesproken met literaire deskundigen over Austen en haar vermeldingen over huidskleur?
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egmond codfried
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door egmond codfried »

Gaarne verwijs ik naar de zes persoonsbeschrijvingen van Jane Austen door vrienden en familie vanaf haar vroegste jeugd en op een JASA site. Omdat zij de bron der bronnen voor mij vormen, zal ik ze hier afdrukken voor het gemak van de lezer en ter voorkoming van andere ongeinformeerde reacties!

Verder lees ik zogenaamde wetenschappelijke werken over Jane Austen, waarin zij op bijna gynaecologische wijze wordt geanalyseerd, maar haast allemaal negeren haar eigen persoonsbeschrijvingen of die van haar personages. Deze boeken zijn in mijn jargon dus 'Ideologisch racistisch.' Het product van een revisionistische benadering van de geschiedenis om de aanwezigheid van zwarten in Europa te ontkennen.

Ik zie dus geen enkele mogelijkheid om mijn tijd met deze 'deskundigen' te verspillen. Denk je niet?
"In person she was very attractive; her figure was rather tall and slender, her step light and firm, and her whole appearance expressive of health and animation. In complexion she was a clear brunette with a rich colour; she had full round cheeks, with mouth and nose small and wellformed bright hazel eyes, and brown hair forming natural curls close round her face."

James-Edward Austen,
Jane's nephew

~

"... certainly pretty-bright & a good deal of colour in her face – like a doll – no that would not give at all the idea for she had so much expression – she was like a child – quite a child very lively and full of humour."

Mr Fowle,
family friend

~

"... her's was the first face I can remember thinking pretty ... Her hair, a darkish brown, curled naturally – it was in short curls round her face...Her face was rather round than long – she had a bright but not a pink colour – a clear brown complexion and very good hazel eyes. Her hair, a darkish brown, curled naturally, it was in short curls around her face. She always wore a cap ... before she left Steventon she was established as a very pretty girl, in the opinion of most of her neighbours."

Caroline Austen,
Jane's niece

~

"Her hair was dark brown and curled naturally, her large dark eyes were widely opened and expressive. She had clear brown skin and blushed so brightly and so readily."

An early description of young Jane at Steventon by Sir Egerton Brydges

~

"She was tall and slender; her face was rounded with a clear brunette complexion and bright hazel eyes. Her curly brown hair
escaped all round her forehead, but from the time of her coming to live at Chawton she always wore a cap, except when her nieces had her in London and forbade it."

Edward Austen Leigh of Jane's appearence in the years just after the family left Southampton

~

" Her stature rather exceeded the middle height; her carriage and deportment were quiet but graceful; her complexion of the finest texture, it might with truth be said that her eloquent blood spoke through her modest
cheek."

" Her pure and eloquent blood spake in her cheeks and so distinctly wrought that you had almost said her body thought."

Henry Austen said of his sister

~

http://www.jasa.net.au/images/austen.htm
Mijn huidige avatar is Queen Charlotte Sophie van Mecklenburg Strelitz (1744-1818), echtgenote van George III; beschreven als ‘a true mulatto face.’ Hertogin van Brunswick-Lüneburg en keurvorstin van het Heilige Roomse Rijk.
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door The Prophet »

Ik had gehoopt op een vruchtbaarder antwoord.

Maar het is me inmiddels helemaal duidelijk: jij hebt een voorgenomen idee en alles moet binnen dat schema passen. Objectief en van diverse kanten kijken naar de zaken en overleggen met mensen die er iets van kunnen weten, dat hoef jij niet. Want die mensen zitten toch in het complot. Twijfels zijn je ook vreemd.

Ik ga je vanaf nu gewoon negeren. Wees gerust: je bent niet de eerste op dit forum.
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egmond codfried
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door egmond codfried »

The Prophet schreef:Ik had gehoopt op een vruchtbaarder antwoord.

Maar het is me inmiddels helemaal duidelijk: jij hebt een voorgenomen idee en alles moet binnen dat schema passen. Objectief en van diverse kanten kijken naar de zaken en overleggen met mensen die er iets van kunnen weten, dat hoef jij niet. Want die mensen zitten toch in het complot. Twijfels zijn je ook vreemd. Ik ga je vanaf nu gewoon negeren. Wees gerust: je bent niet de eerste op dit forum.
Maar wat zijn wij toch lichtgeraakt! Mijn beweringen berusten altijd op bronnen en redeneringen, geen voorgenomen ideeen. Hoe gaat men om met 'deskundigen' die persoonsbeschrijvingen systematisch negeren? Was het in de 19e eeuw normaal dat een zwarte Mr. Elton trouwde met een witte Harriet Smith? Hij reageerde met grote verontwaardiging. Zijn wij nog steeds bezig met Jane Austen als wij haar als een imbeciel benaderen door deze gedeelten van haar teksten dood te zwijgen? En wordt het ook geen tijd dat wij rekening gaan houden met de gevoelens van zwarte mensen die haar ook lezen?
Mijn huidige avatar is Queen Charlotte Sophie van Mecklenburg Strelitz (1744-1818), echtgenote van George III; beschreven als ‘a true mulatto face.’ Hertogin van Brunswick-Lüneburg en keurvorstin van het Heilige Roomse Rijk.
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door The Prophet »

egmond codfried schreef:Maar wat zijn wij toch lichtgeraakt! Mijn beweringen berusten altijd op bronnen en redeneringen, geen voorgenomen ideeen.


Het enige wat je hebt zijn citaten uit Austen's werk. DIe gaan over variaties van huidskleuren. Er staat nergens expliciet dat het over zwarten of kleurlingen gaat, dat is een interpretatie van jou. Ik zeg niet dat jouw interpretatie per se onjuist is, daarom moet je nou juist met anderen in conclaaf, bijvoorbeeld met historici of letterkundigen. Maar nee, jij wijst die bij voorbaat al af, want ze hebben dingen "doodgezwegen" en "systematisch genegeerd". Daaruit maak ik op dat jij niet uit bent op discussie of reflectie, maar op je eigen, vooringenomen gelijk.

Het idee dat Austen zwart of kleurling zou zijn geweest, vind ik op zich een interessante. Maar het enige waar je mee aankomt, zijn wat multi-interpretabele citaten en verder een hoop ononderbouwd gespeculeer over doofpotten en verzwijgingen. Je hebt niets van dat alles hard gemaakt. Het probleem zit mij dus niet in je onderwerp, maar in de manier waarop je je onderwerp behandelt.
egmond codfried schreef:En wordt het ook geen tijd dat wij rekening gaan houden met de gevoelens van zwarte mensen die haar ook lezen?
Ik hou ook geen rekening met gevoelens van witte mensen die haar lezen. Of die wat dan ook lezen. Waarom zou ik?
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egmond codfried
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

Bericht door egmond codfried »

Je hebt gelijk, het wordt niets tussen ons. Want ik ga ervan uit dat de gemiddelde lezer niet aan de hand hoeft te worden gehouden om Jane Austen te kunnen begrijpen. Natuurlijk zijn er tal van verwijzingen naar historische zaken die haar tijdgenoten beter snapten dan wij vandaag. Echter, als je gewoon de twee passages die ik hier afdrukte leest, zal je zien dat zij over huidskleur praat. De zus van Mr. Crawford is bruin, waar hij zwart is. Dat is iets wat men veel bij zwarte families ziet, namelijk verschillende trekken en tinten. Wanneer zij schreef dat 'her brown skin was the annihilation of every grace' verwijst zij naar opvattingen over zwart en wit.

Ik weet zeker dat mensen in culturen waar vrouwen nog in lange jurken lopen en hun hoofd bedekken of altijd met een chaperonne uitgaan, anders kijken naar Austen. Het zou onzinnig zijn om te veronderstellen dat de lezing van een west Europeaan vandaag de enige juiste zou zijn. Dat is wat ik oa. bedoel met de gevoelens van zwarten. Moeten wij, om deze gedachte wat uit te breiden, dan eerst zelf bommen op ons hoofd krijgen om compassie te voelen met bv. de Afghanen? Moeten wij eerst zelf allochtoon zijn om angst te kunnen voelen voor de holocaust plannen? Graag willen mensen mij als racist bestempelen omdat ik de aandacht vestig op bepaalde woorden en beschrijvingen, maar ik denk werkelijk dat zij naar Jane Austen moeten kijken en de makers van film met al die witte actrices. Tenslotte zie ik niet hoe men kan praten met iemand die al bij voorbaat roept om deskundigen en zichzelf heeft gediskalificeerd voor een discussie.

Nu lees ik Emma, en kwel mezelf om uit te vinden of de subtext continu doorloopt of dat het in fragmenten is geschreven. Wanneer zij voor het eerst een bal in The Crown plannen loopt de angst voor 'kouvatten' naar een hoogtepunt. En het idee van openzetten van ramen maakt Mr. Woodhouse bijna hysterisch! Zij hebben het echt niet meer over wat wij doorgaans onder kouvatten verstaan! Mr. Woodhouse lijkt opeens heel lucide en je begrijpt dat Austen ons iets wil duidelijk maken. Men ziet ook dat Emma en haar vader één entiteit vormen.
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

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Baloney detection kit (Carl Sagan)

* Wherever possible there must be independent confirmation of the "facts."
* Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view.
* Arguments from authority carry little weight -- "authorities" have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that in science there are no authorities; at most, there are experts.
* Spin more than one hypothesis. If there's something to be explained, think of all the different ways in which it could be explained. Then think of tests by which you might systematically disprove each of the alternatives. What survives, the hypothesis that resists disproof in this Darwinian selection among "multiple working hypotheses," has a much better chance of being the right answer than if you had simply run with the first idea that caught your fancy. (1)

(1) NOTE: This is a problem that affects jury trials. Retrospective studies show that some jurors make up
their minds very early -- perhaps during opening arguments -- and then retain the evidence that seems to
support their initial impressions and reject the contrary evidence. The method of alternative working
hypotheses is not running in their heads.)

* Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it's yours. It's only a way station in the pursuit of knowledge. Ask yourself why you like the idea. Compare it fairly with the alternatives. See if you can find reasons for rejecting it. If you don't, others will.
* Quantify. If whatever it is you're explaining has some measure, some numerical quantity attached to it, you'll be much better able to discriminate among competing hypotheses. What is vague and qualitative is open to many explanations. Of course there are truths to be sought in the many qualitative issues we are obliged to confront, but finding them is more challenging.
* If there's a chain of argument, every link in the chain must work (including the premise) -- not just most of them.
* Occam's Razor. This convenient rule-of-thumb urges us when faced with two hypotheses that explain the data equally well to choose the simpler.
* Always ask whether the hypothesis can be, at least in principle, falsified. Propositions that are untestable, unfalsifiable are not worth much. Consider the grand idea that our Universe and everything in it is just an elementary particle -- an electron, say -- in a much bigger Cosmos. But if we can never acquire information from outside our Universe, is not the idea incapable of disproof? You must be able to check assertions out. Inveterate skeptics must be given the chance to follow your reasoning, to duplicate your experiments and see if they get the same result.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/saganbd.htm
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egmond codfried
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

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DE PERSOONSBESCHRIJVINGEN VAN DE HOOFDPERSONAGES IN DE ROMANS VAN JANE AUSTEN MBT. HUIDKLEUR

Mansfield Park

Mr Crawford: absolutely plain, black and plain.
Mary Crawford: brown

Emma

Mr. Elton: spruce, black and smiling

Northanger Abbey

Catharine Morland: sallow (licht bruin)
Mr. Tilney: brown

Sense & Sensebility

Marianne Dashwood: very brown
Mrs. Ferrars: sallow

The Watsons

Emma Watson: very brown

Pride and Prejudice

Eliza Bennet: brown, rather tanned

Sanditon

Miss Lamb: a mulatto
Mijn huidige avatar is Queen Charlotte Sophie van Mecklenburg Strelitz (1744-1818), echtgenote van George III; beschreven als ‘a true mulatto face.’ Hertogin van Brunswick-Lüneburg en keurvorstin van het Heilige Roomse Rijk.
egmond codfried
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Re: Schreef Jane Austen (1775-1817) over zwarten?

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KB boeken nu onder mijn beheer.


9. Jane Austen and the Enlightenment / Knox-Shaw, Peter
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: FAN 574; Verlengingen: 3;


Deze is mijn favoriet vanwege de gevoelige analyses van de romans van JA, en omdat hij als zuid afrikaan schrijft dat de personages van JA in Emma net als witte en bruine eieren zijn. Helaas doet hij verder niets met dit gegeven die hij als enige in één regel noemt.

In mijn lezing van JA staat dit dus centraal.

1. Regulated hatred and other essays on Jane Austen / Harding, D.W.
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: ADQ 593; Verlengingen: 3;

2. Jane Austen : her homes and her friends / Hill, Constance
Band info: 1902; Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: 814 A 26; Verlengingen: 4;

3. Jane Austen and the war of ideas / Butler, Marilyn
Band info: 1975; Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: 7324 D 34; Verlengingen: 4;

4. Orientalism / Said, Edward W.
Leen status: Bij lener; Balie: terugontvangstbalie; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: 7080 E 87; Verlengingen: 2;

5. Jane Austen and representations of Regency England / Sales, Roger
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: ACX 758; Verlengingen: 3;

6. Jane Austen in context / Todd, Janet
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: AFI 345; Verlengingen: 3;

7. Emma / Austen, Jane
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: AFI 346; Verlengingen: 2;

8. Mansfield Park / Austen, Jane
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: AFI 347; Verlengingen: 4;

9. Jane Austen and the Enlightenment / Knox-Shaw, Peter
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: FAN 574; Verlengingen: 3;


10. Jane Austen / Lynch, Jack
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: 14004593; Verlengingen: 4;

11. Jane Austen's 'outlandish cousin' : the life and letters of Eliza de Feuillide / Le Faye, Deirdre
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 29-09-2010; Signatuur: 7154 H 41; Verlengingen: 4;

12. George III and Queen Charlotte : patronage, collecting and court taste / Roberts, Jane
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 30-09-2010; Signatuur: ZAG 154;

13. The British monarchy and the French Revolution / Morris, Marilyn
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 30-09-2010; Signatuur: MDE 741;

14. Princesses : the six daughters of George III / Fraser, Flora
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 30-09-2010; Signatuur: 7178 H 14;

15. The age of caricature : satirical prints in the reign of George III / Donald, Diana
Leen status: Bij lener; Retourdatum: 30-09-2010; Signatuur: MCQ 918;
Mijn huidige avatar is Queen Charlotte Sophie van Mecklenburg Strelitz (1744-1818), echtgenote van George III; beschreven als ‘a true mulatto face.’ Hertogin van Brunswick-Lüneburg en keurvorstin van het Heilige Roomse Rijk.
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