Ik heb dat forum een tijdlang gevolgd en gezien hoe op den duur iedereen die een echte converstie wilde voeren en met ideeen kwam die anders waren dan die van 'Holy Moly' Stefan Molyneux, werd gebanned.Het kwalijkst vond ik echter dat deze man op een zeer manipulerende manier zijn aanhangers van hun ouders en sociale omgeving probeert te scheiden. Hij is helemaal voor 'gezonde familierelaties'. Hij zegt dat je je alleen moet losmaken van familieleden die je mishandelen. En iedereen die gelooft in een soort van God, of in de staat, die is kwaadaardig. Sterker, iedereen die niet gelooft in de principes van liefde en relaties zoals hij die in zijn boeken beschrijft, is kwaadaardig. En als ouders kwaadaardig zijn, dan kan het niet anders of ze moeten jou ook wel mishandelen. Hun mishandeling maakt het voor jou op dit moment moeilijker om de Waarheid te accepteren. Als je niet totaal gelooft in de Waarheden in Stefan's boeken, dan komt dat doordat je bent mishandeld door je kwaadaardige ouders. Verstoot je ouders, omhels zijn boeken en de Waarheid zal je vrijmaken.
Luister ter illustratie maar eens
hiernaar.
Iemand schrijft er het volgende over:
Most of what I find terrifying and cruel about FDR is in this podcast. In this one, the "patient" is a woman, the wife of an FDR member. She's wondering if she should defoo from her mother.
Like most of these podcasts, he starts by asking a few questions, but you'll notice he spends as much time planting suggestions about the nature of their mother-daughter relationship as he does listening. By the time the podcast is over, he's convinced her that her mother never truly loved her, that there's no hope of a relationship there, and that it won't actually be painful for her mother if she leaves. Then he gives her instructions on how to lie in order to defoo so there's no fuss. The word "therapy" is mentioned precisely once in 70 minutes, and then only as part of the lie!
For your convenience, I did a half-assed transcription. The conversation rambles on for about 50 minutes, with Stef listening and pushing his patient toward a warped understanding of her relationship with her mother. When the patient describes how hard it is to connect with her mother, saying "It all gets muddy and we never get to the bottom of things," he sets the hook:
49:26 "The reason for that is there is no mother. There's no mother there. There's no person there. There's no personality there. See, we were talking earlier about you're trying to pick this lock to get into this incredible treasure room of a great relationship with your mom, this treasure, this gold, these jewels--all in this room and you're figuring out how to get into this room, right?
The awful secret is there's nothing in the room. That's why you're mom's not opening the door. That's why she's changing the combination every time you get close to picking the lock, cause there's nothing in there. And that's what you knew from the beginning, which is why you spent year after year after year hiding, and lying, and falsifying."
That last line is big technique of his. He tells you what you think and then says "you've known it all along," or something to that effect. He "helps" you understand that the relationship problem you're having now is a life-long problem and convinces you that your entire life with your family has been a completely empty sham.
Now, the next part, how to make it easy for the patient to accept the idea of defooing. He does it this way.
58:50 "We don't defoo from our parents, our parents actually defoo from us. What we do is make a commitment to be honest to everyone who has been in our life. We go to our parents and say this was my experience over childhood, and if they dismiss it then we say this just confirms what I'm talking about. What happens is they eventually tell us to go away because when we are honest with them, we are no longer serving their needs.
So don't have any use for us if we we're not supporting their fantasies. They reject us. The defoo is not--we leave our wailing families in the dust--my family didn't even call me, ha ha, when I tried to be honest with them."
This is a pretty significant section. See how he makes the defoo easy? Part of it is he innoculates you against having awareness of how much pain you're causing. The other part is telling you he knows exactly how parents will react when confronted. This is littered through his books and podcasts. It's insidious, because you start to think, "why even bother having the conversation, I know how my parents will react?" That's exactly what Stef wants you to think, because he really doesn't want you to have that conversation. Need more proof?
At 62:07 the patient asks a qood question about her mother's reaction. "What if she surprises me?" Stef's immediate answer: "SHE WILL NOT SURPRISE YOU."
Because he knows. Now, to make slipping away easy....
64:04 "And there's no big drama if you do decide you don't want to see her anymore. We've got examples of this on the board. It doesn't have to be a big drama, because there'll be enough drama that she'll be happy to see the back of you for awhile, if you're honest.
You say 'I'm going to take a bit of a break, I'm going to work on my own issues, I'm going to'...give her whatever she needs--'I'm the one who's totally at fault, I'm going to go into therapy so I can better' whatever. And that buys you a couple of months. And you can see how you feel."
That's the only time therapy is mentioned in the entire podcast. As part of a lie he wants her to tell her mother. And you'd think it all sounds reasonable. Just take a break, right? The truth is this lie is something the patient is telling both the mother and herself. Because Stef knows. She can go back in a few months if she feels miserable without her mother, but that won't happen.
65:09 "If you're like, 'I'm really sad, I miss her so much, which....is not going to happen...ha ha, right?'
Why would she even want to see a therapist now? It's all been worked out.
That is one scary podcast--a lot scarier if you listen to it.
So I know this is a very long-winded answer to a very short observation, but that's what understanding FDR requires. It's a very sunny and shiny surface with some very dark and murky depths. If your premise is true--that Stef believes very much in getting therapy before any significant life change--you would think he would tack that on at the end, or even edit the .MP3 later to insert it. But no, when he asks permission to broadcast it he says:
70:50 "I think this would completely gold, fantastic, useful stuff for other listeners."
Well, it is gold. It's gold for whatever real therapist who comes along later and has to undo the damage Stef does.
Zo kun je op dat forum introductiepostings tegenkomen van 15-jarige kinderen die hebben besloten hun ouders de rug toe te keren omdat ze vroeger als kind eens hardhandig zijn gecorrigeerd! Ook exemplarisch, het volgende introductietopic:
http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums ... ageIndex=1
Hier probeer Stefan een jongen wijs te maken dat zijn ouders monsters zijn, ze zijn immers christenen en er staat een hoop narigheid in de bijbel.. Als de jongen volhoudt dat zijn ouders lieve mensen zijn, wordt hij gebanned.
Later in het topic stelt een verbitterd lid vast:
You didn't ask him reasonable questions about his parent's faith, you didn't ask him about the anxiety he was feeling about leaving him. No, none of that. You jumped right into an anti-religious tirade, and implied that his parents advocated your murder.
And when he took offense to your characterizations--which were based on no actual facts about his family's behavior--you told him to take a hike. It couldn't possibly be that you made a mistake, that you banned Tyler from these boards for basically no good reason, could it? It has to be that other people are twisting your words, trying to make you look like a big, bad bully.
I'm not too concerned about Tyler. I think he handled himself just fine. What I'm concerned about is the lack of independent thought on this website, and your apparent encouragement of that phenomenon. "Oh I love familes! Familes are great," you say, and yet (1) you don't actually have any, and (2), basically everyone you allow to stay on this site is asked to indict their parents for something when the subject comes up. And you love to bring the subject up, don't you? There are all these call-in shows where someone will be feeling bad, or will be having relationship trouble, and you'll walk them through your little step-by-step -- with your characteristically manipulative "..., right?" at the end of every other sentence, as if it was really a question -- until finally they're convinced that all their woes, and all the woes of the world, are because of abusive, 'corrupt' parents.
But then some teenager shows up and doesn't have anything terrible to say about them, you basically tell him that he's in denial, and not to come back. Again, you had zero information about his family and their behavior. Whatever you think about them, whatever horrible beliefs you attribute to them, is all coming from within yourself. As far as I can tell, Tyler had no real complaints about them. You, and a few other rabid interrogators are the only ones who even seemed to care what his parents think about God. He only mentioned it in passing in his original question.
Why not just be honest about it? You seem to think that anyone who is religious, no matter to what extent, is beyond redemption. You apparently believe that parents who are religious are necessarily abusive. And please, please just be honest about how you really feel about families. Stop all these disclaimers about how great families are, and how wonderful families can be. I doubt you've ever given an example, certainly I've never heard it, of a family that you actually approved of. Well, apart from your own "family" of course, which is just absurd. Your little family of two, right? With all the chid-rearing experience you don't have, all the difficulties you never had to face yourself, you get to sit in your empty house and take pot-shots at all the "horrible" families out there who have the corruption and arrogance to make mistakes as they raise children, or to teach their children things that they honestly believe are truth. Shame on them, right?
You're like a guy who can't stomach musical performances because of all the mistakes he hears from the players. "Oh they're so terrible," he exclaims, "They shouldn't be allowed near an instrument." But when asked whether he'll ever pick up the craft himself, he says, "Nah, it's not for me." It's convenient. It's very easy to criticize others for something that you yourself are immune to. It doesn't take much courage or insight to accuse people of mistakes that you, yourself, don't ever have to worry about.
And, no, you do not need to whip our your banning gun on my behalf. I don't plan on coming back. Reading through this thread, and seeing your renewed inability to take responsibility for your own mistakes and biases is, I think, reason enough to abandon this environment.
FDR is nu een verzameltrog van beschadigde mensen, of mensen die geloven dat ze beschadigd zijn. En allen wentelen ze zich in een heerlijke, zoete slachtofferrol. Een forum waar mensen zich introduceren met de woorden: "Hi! Ik ben als kind sexueel misbruikt, en dus ben ik hier gekomen om alles over anarchie te leren!"