http://new.exchristian.net/

Getuigenissen van kerkverlaters, ex-moslims en voormalige sektariërs.
Het is niet de bedoeling om discussies op te zetten over het afvallig worden van de topic starter.

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PietV.
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http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door PietV. » 06 jan 2011 18:56

Op deze plek staan talloze verhalen van ex-christenen. Lees ze eens door en zoek de meest aansprekende uit. Deze kunnen vertaald of onvertaald op deze plek gezet worden. Al geruime tijd lees ik mee. En er zitten pareltjes tussen. Maar smaken verschillen natuurlijk. Het zijn getuigenissen van afvalligen. Waar al een apart topic over is, maar gezien het karakter en de constante stroom van berichten vult dit verhaal zich vanzelf. En verdient het een aparte plaats.
Is de leegte niet een weldaad, geeft stilte niet veel rust, waarom moet onder leiding van dominees, goeroes, therapeuten en anderen alles kapot gezingeeft worden?

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PietV.
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door PietV. » 06 jan 2011 19:04

http://new.exchristian.net/2010/12/my-long-journey.html

My long journey...

By Jeffrey Frederick ~

My journey to become an atheist was a very long one. I had my doubts from back when I was around 10 years old (I'm 25 now). I remember back when I was a kid I was terrified about going to Hell. I would ask myself often if I really believed in Jesus and I tried to convince myself I did.

I grew up in a Christian family and was surrounded by Christians my whole life. I went to a Lutheran school and went to church there everyday as well as another church outside of school every Sunday. Christianity was a big part of my life back then.

I was always a skeptical person and tried to use logical reasoning. I guess because of Christianity being such a big part of my life I never questioned it until I got older. I was always scared though.

As I got older I slowly started to realize how absurd Christianity is. This is where the brainwashing comes into play. Even though I knew how stupid some things were, I ignored it thinking that there was some bigger purpose.

The big turning point for me was a couple years ago. I was unemployed and had a lot of free time. I would think a lot about myself and my future as well as religion in general. So I started to do some research and what I found was incredible. Something that would change my life forever.

First thing I did was I researched the history of Christianity. Wow! Christianity borrowed things from other religions. Even the cross is a pagan symbol coming from the Wheel of the Zodiac. Imagine that, all those people who wear crosses and don't even know where it came from.

Next I went for the Bible itself. I really started to study it and what I found was sickening. Entire cities being destroyed, kids being murdered, the owning and beating of slaves, etc. As well as things that are just plain silly such as men who lived to be hundreds of years old. The list goes on and on.

There is so much suffering, pain and fear in the Bible that I couldn't believe it. It was like a smack in the face for me to wake up. Then and there I decided I wasn't going to be a part of such a thing. I'm a good natured, peace loving person and I wouldn't harm a fly. This went against
everything I am.

I then started to think about all the wars that religion has caused over the years. All the advances in technology that were halted due to religion. We as a people are limiting ourselves because of this. I just couldn't go on knowing that I in some way was a part of it.

When I finally decided not to be religious anymore a strange thing happened, I wasn't scared anymore. I also found a new appreciation for life. I realized I couldn't rely on some fairy tale to save me from whatever was happening. I needed to do things on my own and create my own purpose in life. I also never felt so free.

So here I am now. I'm no longer worrying about going to Hell. I don't care about what the "Christian" thing to do is. I just do whatever I think is right and listen to my heart. I'm just...happy.

I would like to leave you with a thought that really struck me as I was researching. It's from a documentary that, unfortunately, I can't remember the name.

Let's say that Christianity was true and you end up in Hell. Wouldn't you wished you had believed? No, because Heaven wouldn't be much better knowing that there are millions of people in Hell suffering horribly and there was nothing you could do about it.

That's exactly how I feel.
Is de leegte niet een weldaad, geeft stilte niet veel rust, waarom moet onder leiding van dominees, goeroes, therapeuten en anderen alles kapot gezingeeft worden?

Berjan
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door Berjan » 07 jan 2011 17:35

Let's say that Christianity was true and you end up in Hell. Wouldn't you wished you had believed? No, because Heaven wouldn't be much better knowing that there are millions of people in Hell suffering horribly and there was nothing you could do about it.

=D>

Precies wat ik ook voel bij de Hemel en de Hel.

In het Boeddhisme kun je Nirwana tenminste "weigeren" om zo je medemens naar de overkant te helpen. Maar in het Christendom is daar geen sprake van.

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PietV.
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door PietV. » 07 jan 2011 20:10

Berjan schreef:
In het Boeddhisme kun je Nirwana tenminste "weigeren" om zo je medemens naar de overkant te helpen. Maar in het Christendom is daar geen sprake van.
Zo had ik het nog niet bekeken Berjan :) Een gebrek aan solidariteit zullen we maar zeggen.
Is de leegte niet een weldaad, geeft stilte niet veel rust, waarom moet onder leiding van dominees, goeroes, therapeuten en anderen alles kapot gezingeeft worden?

MNb
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door MNb » 08 jan 2011 02:46

Persoonlijk zie ik het verschil niet zo tussen de christelijke hemel en de christelijke hel. In de laatste moet ik eeuwige pijn verduren, in de eerste eeuwige verveling. Als ik uitgekeken ben op de nieuwigheid, wat dan? Perfectie is in de praktijk helemaal niet aantrekkelijk.
Ik geloof niet. In Spanje slaan alle 22 spelers een kruisje voordat ze het veld opkomen, als het werkt, zal het dus altijd een gelijkspel worden.

Johan Cruijff

Aton
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door Aton » 08 jan 2011 09:23

MNb schreef:Persoonlijk zie ik het verschil niet zo tussen de christelijke hemel en de christelijke hel. In de laatste moet ik eeuwige pijn verduren, in de eerste eeuwige verveling. Als ik uitgekeken ben op de nieuwigheid, wat dan? Perfectie is in de praktijk helemaal niet aantrekkelijk.
Even noteren: Niet vergeten mee te nemen: pijnstillers en een spel kaarten. OK.

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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door Cluny » 08 jan 2011 09:28

gotan schreef:
MNb schreef:Persoonlijk zie ik het verschil niet zo tussen de christelijke hemel en de christelijke hel. In de laatste moet ik eeuwige pijn verduren, in de eerste eeuwige verveling. Als ik uitgekeken ben op de nieuwigheid, wat dan? Perfectie is in de praktijk helemaal niet aantrekkelijk.
Even noteren: Niet vergeten mee te nemen: pijnstillers en een spel kaarten. OK.
Volgens mij sta je naakt aan de poort en mag je niets meenemen.
God bestaat niet. Religie is de vrijwillige celstraf van het verstand. Bidden is ozo kinderachtig. De dood is het absolute eindpunt van elk individueel leven. Als iets niet merkbaar en niet meetbaar is, bestaat het niet. Alle homeopaten zijn kwakzalvers.

Aton
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door Aton » 08 jan 2011 09:40

Cluny schreef:
gotan schreef:
MNb schreef:Persoonlijk zie ik het verschil niet zo tussen de christelijke hemel en de christelijke hel. In de laatste moet ik eeuwige pijn verduren, in de eerste eeuwige verveling. Als ik uitgekeken ben op de nieuwigheid, wat dan? Perfectie is in de praktijk helemaal niet aantrekkelijk.
Even noteren: Niet vergeten mee te nemen: pijnstillers en een spel kaarten. OK.
Volgens mij sta je naakt aan de poort en mag je niets meenemen.
Hoe kun jij dat nu weten ? Waar steek je dan die koffiepads ?

Berjan
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door Berjan » 08 jan 2011 16:29

Zo had ik het nog niet bekeken Berjan :) Een gebrek aan solidariteit zullen we maar zeggen.
Zo zie ik het ook Piet (als die laatste zin ten minste over het Christendom gaat, en niet over jou :D)

Ik had eens in een boeddhistisch boek gelezen: Hoe kun je nou zelf naar Nirwana willen, als je weet dat je medemensen nog in onwetendheid verkeren?

Dat was een eye opener :D

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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door CXT » 08 jan 2011 16:45

Topic verplaatst van Christendom/Judaïsme naar Getuigenissen van afvalligen.
Edwards: Why the big secret? People are smart. They can handle it.
Kay: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.
Men in Black

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PietV.
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door PietV. » 08 jan 2011 20:09

Deze persoon stelt zich de vraag of hij gehersenspoeld is. Hij maakt een aantal punten en vergelijkt dit met zijn eigen situatie. Het zwartgedrukte vond ik erg duidelijk. Geheugenvorming is eigenlijk het vormen van littekens. De vele duizenden littekens die zijn achtergelaten tijdens een een langdurige periode van indoctrinatie. Verdwijnen die of blijven ze altijd aanwezig?

http://new.exchristian.net/2010/04/have ... ashed.html

Have You Been Brainwashed?


Having grown up as the youngest son of a Christian minister, first in the Baptist denomination, then into Pentecostal and Non-Denominational Churches (part of the Charismatic movement for the most part), I was heavily indoctrinated in Protestant Christianity from a very young age (since birth really).

From my earliest memories, I was in church every time the doors were opened (mainly because my father usually was the one who opened them). For much of my early childhood, we even had a family bible study every single weeknight. As a result, I have a very strong understanding and knowledge of this religion, and it's sacred writings.

Another effect of this style of upraising is that I have undergone a long, painful, arduous journey escaping what I now think of as the brainwashing that I was subjected to for more than half of my life. To this day, I still have not escaped all of the effects of this time in my life. After all, it was perpetrated at the most developmentally important part of my growth. My natural bend to intellectualism was discouraged and stunted, because it does not fit with the practice of blind faith. My kneejerk sense of morality, which has both negative and positive aspects, does not always correspond with a realistic purview of ethical behavior. Despite my initial liberation from irrational beliefs, I still pay a penalty for the brainwashing I endured in these, and many other different ways. I am progressing daily. But, it seems such an unnecessary struggle should have been avoided.

The steps of Brainwashing:
Assault on identity
Guilt
Self-betrayal
Breaking point
Leniency
Compulsion to confess
Channeling of guilt
Releasing of guilt
Progress and harmony
Final confession and rebirth

Why do I think of this as brainwashing? Let's consider the definition of brainwashing (according to Oxford American Dictionary): make (someone) adopt radically different beliefs by using systematic and often forcible pressure.

1. The first step to brainwashing is to attack the subject's sense of self, or identity. Since a child is developing his/her sense of self within the context of the religious teachings, this step is fulfilled by default, as there is no prior sense of self to overcome.

2. Christianity is built upon the concept of guilt. We sinful creatures must be redeemed from the sinful nature we inherited, that was passed down through the generations from Adam and Eve. So, the second step, which is guilt is obviously fulfilled.

3. Attending church, listening to the songs, the sermon, and just the casual conversation of the congregation, constantly reinforces to the child how guilty everyone including the child him/her self are. This fulfills the step of self betrayal by convincing the child of his/her own lack of intrinsic worth. The child is forced to admit this, at least inside, if not to others. Ultimately, this step is about internalizing the guilt that is hammered down in step 2.

4. This leads to the point where the child wonders what he/she, the wretched sinful creature can possibly do about his/her dismal state. Obviously, there is nothing that he/she as an inherently evil creature can do. This is the point where God and Jesus come in. They are willing to forgive you, and give you a new life, one without the sinful nature that makes you so evil. The child is worn down to the point of relinquishing his/her control of self, the breaking point. I clearly remember spending many sleepless nights at the tender age of 8 crying out to God to save me. I was terrified of going to hell. It was much worse than any horror movie, or any other source of fear that I had felt before or since that time. It is a very powerful motivator to embrace the teachings of Christianity. To this day, I still have a deep fear of going to hell, even though I no longer even believe in such a place.

5. The step of leniency is fulfilled by the grace and mercy that God exhibits by giving the child a chance at salvation, simply by believing that Jesus died as a sacrifice to redeem him/her from his/her wretched sinful nature. He/She can now go to heaven, because she/he believes. Isn't God good to help that child. Isn't He showing leniency to such an unworthy creature.

6-10. To save time and space, I won't belabor the obvious. I think that you get the gist of what I am saying here. For these reasons, I will summarize the rest of the steps in one short paragraph. The child is encouraged to confess his/her sins often, at various times, in various ways. The pain that is associated with the guilt is attributed to the "world" as opposed to the "things of God" or the "Kingdom of Heaven". This encourages the child to avoid the "evil" things of the "world". After the conversion experience, it is the world that is blamed for the evil that may occasionally overtake the child. To remedy this, the child is encouraged to avoid the world. It is by renewing his/her mind in the Word of God that he/she insulates him/her self from the world, and the attendant guilt. This renewing and dedication to the things of God are put forth as providing the peace and harmony that has been denied the child through the aforementioned mechanisms. This, in turn, provides a sense of comfort and a cessation of a sense of responsibility within the child, as long as he/she continues to live in the prescribed way.

Considering that nearly every one of these steps can take place in a single church service, and that many children go through thousands of these services in their lifetimes, one can easily see the erosive power of such a mechanism on a person's will, especially as the personality, will, emotions, virtually every aspect that we think of as representing the very humanness of humanity, is yet to be formed. I have often thought that continuing to teach something that has already been learned ad nauseam must be a form or step of brainwashing. In what other aspect of life is this sort of instruction used, and considered normal?

The alert reader may wonder how the definition's statement of adopting radically different beliefs is fulfilled. Well, I'm glad you asked. Part of what led to my eventual deconversion was my noticing the fact that many of the most important claims made in the Bible are of a supernatural nature. Though I have spoken with a few people who claim direct exposure to what they consider to be supernatural events, I have not witnessed nor heard of any experience or phenomena that could not either be explained using natural means, or reasonably doubted (most often because of humanity's notoriously untrustworthy mechanisms of perception). This has lead me to ask the question, both of myself and others: What in our daily experiences supports the idea of the supernatural phenomena reported in the bible? Is there any reason or evidence that shows that such claims are truly possible/probable. These beliefs that we are expected to hold in Christianity really are radically different from our personal experiences of the natural world. What reason, other than the teaching (brainwashing), and widespread acceptance of such beliefs, do we have to believe these truly incredible claims?

I encourage you to ask yourself these question: Have I been brainwashed? Why do I believe what I believe? If I had been born in another place at another time, how might my beliefs be different? I asked myself these questions as a young adult. The honest answers I gave myself made an amazing liberating change in me, that I really would like to share with others. All I ask is that you take the advice of the inscription over the entryway of the ancient Greek temple at Delphi "Know Yourself". In other words, have the courage to be honest with yourself, the courage to answer these questions forthrightly and honestly.
Is de leegte niet een weldaad, geeft stilte niet veel rust, waarom moet onder leiding van dominees, goeroes, therapeuten en anderen alles kapot gezingeeft worden?

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PietV.
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door PietV. » 11 jan 2011 22:20

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/testimonials/

Even tussen de bedrijven door. Voor de liefhebbers die er geen genoeg van krijgen :wink:
In dit rijtje staan veel bekende namen.
Is de leegte niet een weldaad, geeft stilte niet veel rust, waarom moet onder leiding van dominees, goeroes, therapeuten en anderen alles kapot gezingeeft worden?

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Blackadder
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door Blackadder » 12 jan 2011 01:42

uit die laatste link:

"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."

:notworthy:
May the Lord hate you and all your kind, may you be turned orange in hue, and may your head fall off at an awkward moment.'

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Hiëronymus
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door Hiëronymus » 12 jan 2011 11:35

I want my religion back
| 1/4/11 |
0Share
By Eva ~

My loss of faith was not a choice. I spent four years as an evangelical Christian believing that Jesus was my Savior and trying to follow a literal interpretation of the Bible perfectly to show Him my love. Early one Sunday morning before church, I was reading the gospel accounts of the crucifixion because I felt guilty that I didn’t know the events exactly as they occurred. I found the vast disparities between the accounts troubling.

I scoured my MacArthur Study Bible, my Christian websites, and Google search results for an adequate explanation of the differences. I found two theories: either the differences were due to changes in perspective from each gospel writer or some of the gospel accounts were erroneous.

I wanted to believe the first idea that the gospel writers had different perspectives, but it didn’t make sense to me. Why would Luke leave out the miraculous signs Matthew describes? Why would Mark fail to notice Jesus stop to talk to his mother as John recounts? I could not accept this theory.

The only theory left was that the gospel accounts contained false records of Jesus’ death. If I could not trust some of the Bible, then I had to question the whole thing. Myriads of contradictions and unanswered doubts I had suppressed flooded my mind. Much as I wanted otherwise, I could no longer believe the Bible was the inerrant word of God.

Gone were the easy Bible answers for the big questions of life: Why are we here? What ought I do? Is there a God? I plunged into depression.

Without Jesus in my life, I feel hopeless and empty. I started feeling worthless after I had sex, and now I feel stupid because my church warned me premarital sex causes feelings of worthlessness. I’m always sad. Everything I used to enjoy bores me. I’m getting scarily skinny, but I can’t get motivated to eat. I sleep all the time, and when I’m not asleep, I’m exhausted. I wake up thinking about dying.

I yearn to be a Christian again. I keep trying to believe, but I can’t help feeling that the God of the Bible is ridiculous. I find prayer taxing because God no longer seems real. I’m mad at God for making me stop believing and ending my happiness.

I want my answers back. I want my morality back. I want my prayer back. I want my joy back. I want my Jesus back.
Au.

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Cluny
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Re: http://new.exchristian.net/

Bericht door Cluny » 12 jan 2011 11:36

Opium.
God bestaat niet. Religie is de vrijwillige celstraf van het verstand. Bidden is ozo kinderachtig. De dood is het absolute eindpunt van elk individueel leven. Als iets niet merkbaar en niet meetbaar is, bestaat het niet. Alle homeopaten zijn kwakzalvers.

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