The Great Global Warming Swindle

Hier kan gedebateerd worden over de nieuwste ontwikkelingen in de wetenschap.

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Blueflame
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Bericht door Blueflame » 12 mar 2007 23:19

Sebastiaan schreef:
mouvement schreef:
0.28%
door de mens. dus normaal zorgt het broeikaseffect voor een verwarming van 33 graden celcius. als we daar 0.28% bij op doen is het. 33keer 1.00028 is 33.00924
0.00924 graden hoger door de mens :?
Ik geloof wel dat je correct bent, maar ik stel het op prijs om een bron vermelding te zien
Neen. Bij temperatuursvariatie i.v.m. de opwarming van de aarde kan je helemaal niet in percenten spreken. Hierbij stel je nl. dat 0 en 100 referentiepunten zouden zijn, en dat is helemaal niet zo.

Mvg.
111 111 111 x 111 111 111 = 12 345 678 987 654 321

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marc aka controle
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Bericht door marc aka controle » 13 mar 2007 21:31

De eerste doodsbedreigingen zijn binnen.

"Nu de officiële doctrine steeds meer onder druk komt te staan, grijpen de gelovigen naar steeds zwaardere middelen. Terwijl sceptici tot nu toe het slachtoffer werden van karaktermoord en ongevraagd getracteerd werden op taart, worden ze nu met de dood bedreigd.

Heilige Oorlog
Een van de sceptici die met de dood is bedreigd, is Timothy Ball die ook te zien was in de documentaire The Great Global Warming Swindle. (De documentaire is inmiddels niet meer beschikbaar via google-video en bij youtube alleen nog deel 2). Hij kreeg 5 emails waarin hij met de dood werd bedreigd. In één daarvan werd hem te verstaan gegeven dat als hij door zou gaan met het zich uitspreken tegen man-made global warming, hij de verdere opwarming van de aarde niet meer mee zou maken.

Daarmee is de strijd rondom global warming verworden tot een ordinaire jihad, een Heilige Oorlog tegen ketters en afvalligen.

Het is allemaal onze schuld
Om te zorgen dat de doorsnee burger de boodschap ook goed begrijpt komt Hollywood dit jaar met een hele reeks films die ons duidelijk moeten maken dat het milieu het slachtoffer is en wij met z'n allen de vijand.

Vliegen op rantsoen
In het Verenigd Koninkrijk worden de politieke consequeties van de groene agenda inmiddels pijnlijk duidelijk: nota bene de conservatieven onder leiding van David Cameron willen vliegreizen voortaan rantsoeneren. Toegestaan is één korte vliegreis (retourvlucht) per jaar, wie meer vliegt wordt bestraft met extra hoge belastingen. Hoe meer je vliegt, hoe hoger de belastingen.

What's next? Spartaanse werkkampen voor frequent fliers? Een goelag voor milieuzondaars?"

http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/?pagina=295 ... en_ketters

hier is een werkende link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XttV2C6B8pU
The Gödelian formula is the Achilles heel of the cybernetical machine. And therefore we cannot hope ever to produce a machine that will be able to do all that a mind can do: we can never not even in principle, have a mechanical model of the mind. JR Lucas

mouvement
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Bericht door mouvement » 13 mar 2007 21:42

mensen die dingen verbieden en mensen bedreigen hebben meestal iets te verbergen, zo ook met de geloven. tenminste zo denk ik het
het feit dat er DNA bestaat is al een onomstotelijk bewijs voor evolutie.

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Gerben
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Bericht door Gerben » 13 mar 2007 21:47

Idioten heb je overal.

mouvement
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Bericht door mouvement » 13 mar 2007 22:11

http://www.co2science.org/scripts/Templ ... nh1000.jpg

vergelijk dit een keer met de grafiek op 10.25 van de film, je ziet heel andere waarden naar voren komen. hoe kan dit in vredesnaam :evil:

ik geloof de grafiek in de film want de vikingen konden veehouden op groenland en ook ijsland was erg groen in die tijd.
Laatst gewijzigd door mouvement op 13 mar 2007 22:16, 1 keer totaal gewijzigd.
het feit dat er DNA bestaat is al een onomstotelijk bewijs voor evolutie.

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Sebastiaan
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Bericht door Sebastiaan » 13 mar 2007 22:28

Helaas is deze versie wel van een mindere kwaliteit. Gelukkig heben we Torrent nog, dat kunnen ze ne effe weg stemmen :twisted:
De wereld is zoveel logischer en makkelijker te begrijpen zonder god dan met, dus waarom moeilijk doen als het makkelijk kan?

Vin
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Bericht door Vin » 13 mar 2007 22:32

Het gaat er niet om of de aarde opwarmt - want dat is een feit.
Het gaat erom of de mens met zijn co2 uitstoot verantwoordelijk daarvoor is,
dat is nu juist hetgene dat niet aangetoond is.

Als we met z'n allen minder gaan verbruiken (minder consumeren)
snijden we onszelf dan niet in de vingers ?

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marc aka controle
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Bericht door marc aka controle » 13 mar 2007 22:50

@mouvement

Die grafiek van de link komt in de film volgens mij ook naar voren. Dat die afwijkt van 10:25 lijkt idd het geval. Misschien alleen van Engeland de temperatuur? Moet het antwoord even schuldig blijven.

@sebastiaan

Hoeveel mensen weten nu hoe torrents werken? Weinig. Google video (ook dus youtube) is een politiek correcte bende ohne ende. Er zijn al meerdere gevallen van bewuste censuur opgemerkt. Dat zal waarschijnlijk nu niet anders zijn.

@vin

Er is niets mis mee om verantwoordelijk om te gaan met het milieu, het moet alleen wel een balans zijn mi. Ik vind bijvoorbeeld vooral luchtkwaliteit een reden om giftige uitstoot te verminderen.
The Gödelian formula is the Achilles heel of the cybernetical machine. And therefore we cannot hope ever to produce a machine that will be able to do all that a mind can do: we can never not even in principle, have a mechanical model of the mind. JR Lucas

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Sebastiaan
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Bericht door Sebastiaan » 13 mar 2007 23:04

De wereld is zoveel logischer en makkelijker te begrijpen zonder god dan met, dus waarom moeilijk doen als het makkelijk kan?

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Sebastiaan
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Bericht door Sebastiaan » 13 mar 2007 23:26

Laten we het eens van de andere kant bekijken

http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0313 ... da_the.php

March 13, 2007
PURE PROPAGANDA - THE GREAT GLOBAL WARMING SWINDLE

The Scientists Are The Bad Guys

On March 8, Channel 4 screened The Great Global Warming Swindle, a documentary that branded as a lie the scientific consensus that man-made greenhouse gasses are primarily responsible for climate change. The film was advertised extensively on Channel 4 and repeatedly previewed and reviewed in newspapers. Writing in the Sunday Telegraph, Christopher Booker declared:

"Only very rarely can a TV documentary be seen as a pivotal moment in a major political debate, but such was Channel 4's The Great Global Warming Swindle last Thursday. Never before has there been such a devastatingly authoritative account of how the hysteria over global warming has parted company with reality." (Booker, 'A turning point in climate change,' Sunday Telegraph, March 11, 2007)

Peter Hitchens commented in the Daily Mail:

"If you were worried about those snaps of polar bears clinging to melting ice-floes, sentenced to a slow death by global warming, you may now relax. They'll be fine. Channel 4 has paid in full for its recent misdemeanours by screening, last Thursday, the brilliant, devastating film The Great Global Warming Swindle." (Hitchens, 'Drugs?', Daily Mail, March 11, 2007)

Doubtless like many who saw the film, the Financial Times' reviewer was left bewildered:

"Not so long ago, the venerable David Attenborough on the Beeb was telling us that human-driven global warming was real and was coming for us. So that was settled. Now Channel 4, like a dissident schoolboy, is scoffing at the old boy's hobbyhorse and I don't know what to believe." ('Slaughterhouse three,' Financial Times, March 10, 2007)

The film opened with scenes of wild weather and environmental disaster accompanied by dramatic captions:

"THE ICE IS MELTING. THE SEA IS RISING. HURRICANES ARE BLOWING. AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT. "SCARED? DON'T BE. IT'S NOT TRUE."

This was immediately followed by a series of equally forthright talking heads:
"We can't say that CO2 will drive climate; it certainly never did in the past."
"We imagine that we live in an age of reason. And the global warming alarm is dressed up as science. But it's not science; it's propaganda."
And:
"We're just being told lies; that's what it comes down to."
The commentary added to the sense of outrage: "You are being told lies."

This was indeed superficially impressive - when several experts make bold statements on the same theme we naturally assume they must be onto something - but alarm bells should already have been ringing. This, after all, was ostensibly a film about science - about evidence, arguments, research and debate. Why, then, the language of polemic and smear? The remarkable answer is provided by the film's writer and director, Martin Durkin:

"I think it [the film] will go down in history as the first chapter in a new era of the relationship between scientists and society. Legitimate scientists - people with qualifications - are the bad guys. It is a big story that is going to cause controversy.

"It's very rare that a film changes history, but I think this is a turning point and in five years the idea that the greenhouse effect is the main reason behind global warming will be seen as total bollocks." ('"Global Warming Is Lies" Claims Documentary,' Life Style Extra, March 4, 2007; http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?stor ... ocumentary)

Compare and contrast this with the aim as described in a letter sent by the makers of the film, Wag TV, to Professor Carl Wunsch, a leading expert on ocean circulation and climate who subsequently appeared in the film:

"The aim of the film is to examine critically the notion that recent global warming is primarily caused by industrial emissions of CO2. It explores the scientific evidence which jars with this hypothesis and explores alternative theories such as solar induced climate change. Given the seemingly inconclusive nature of the evidence, it examines the background to the apparent consensus on this issue, and highlights the dangers involved, especially to developing nations, of policies aimed at limiting industrial growth." (http://ocean.mit.edu/~cwunsch/papersonl ... l4response)

Wunsch comments:

"I am angry because they completely misrepresented me. My views were distorted by the context in which they placed them. I was misled as to what it was going to be about. I was told about six months ago that this was to be a programme about how complicated it is to understand what is going on. If they had told me even the title of the programme, I would have absolutely refused to be on it. I am the one who has been swindled." (Geoffrey Lean, 'Climate change: An inconvenient truth... for C4,' The Independent, March 11, 2007; http://news.independent.co.uk/environme ... 347526.ece)
We will hear more from Wunsch in what follows.

Deeply Deceptive

The film presented viewers with an apparently devastating refutation of the "theory of global warming". And these were not picky, esoteric criticisms. Durkin insisted that the world's climate scientists are guilty of the most fundamental error imaginable: increased atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) is not the cause of higher temperature, as the experts claim. Quite the reverse: increasing atmospheric CO2 is itself the +result+ of rising temperature.

As evidence for this contention, Durkin argued that global surface temperature dropped dramatically between 1945-1975, at a time when CO2 emissions were rapidly rising as a result of the postwar economic boom. According to Durkin, if CO2 emissions were responsible for increasing temperature, then temperature should not have fallen between 1945-1975. Clearly, then, some factor other than CO2 emissions must have caused the subsequent global temperature rise.

But Real Climate, an internet site run by climate scientists, such as NASA's Dr Gavin Schmidt and Dr William Connelley of the British Antarctic Survey, describes Durkin's discussion of the 1945-75 period as "deeply deceptive". (Real Climate, March 9, 2007; http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... 3/swindled)

In this section of the film, Durkin focused heavily on a graph depicting temperature changes. The graph, Real Climate comments, "looks rather odd and may have been carefully selected". It appears to show a dramatic cooling between the 1940s and 1970s. But try flipping between the film's version of the global temperature record:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/ ... apture.jpg

and the temperature plot that normally appears in the scientific literature:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Inst ... Record.png

The supposed cooling looks rather less evident in this second graph. Without knowing more details of how Durkin may have manipulated the data plotted in his graph, it is difficult to comment on the presentation. What we can say is that Durkin's "four decades of cooling", implying a relentless temperature drop over 40 years, is not an accurate description of the trend over this period. There was some cooling for +part+ of this time but also some plateauing, with fluctuations up and down. But why did the temperature not simply rise in line with the post-war increase in greenhouse gas emissions?

In fact, as is well-known, the absence of a global rise in temperature between 1945-75 is explained by the release of large amounts of industrial pollutants, called sulphate aerosols, into the atmosphere. These particles have a braking effect on global warming, known as "global dimming". By shielding some of the incoming solar energy, sulphate aerosols mask the underlying warming effect generated by rising levels of CO2. By the 1980s, however, stronger warming had exceeded this masking effect and global temperature has since continued to rise. As Real Climate notes, by failing to explain the science behind this phenomenon the programme makers were guilty of "lying to us by omission."

The Ice Cores

The film repeatedly gave the impression that mainstream science argues that CO2 is the +sole+ driver of rising temperatures in the Earth's climate system. But this is not the case. Climate scientists are well aware that solar activity plays a role, though a minor one at present, as do long-term periodic changes in the Earth's orbit, known as Milankovitch cycles. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles)

The point is that there is a vast body of evidence that very strongly supports the hypothesis that greenhouse gas emissions, of which CO2 is the most important, are +primarily+ responsible for +recent+ global warming. The 4th and most recent scientific assessment of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) concludes:

"Most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century is very likely [.i.e. probability greater than 90%] due to the observed increase in anthropogenic greenhouse gas concentrations." ('Climate Change 2007: The Physical Science Basis,' Summary for Policymakers, IPCC, February 2007, page 10;
http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf)

We then come to one of the film's most misleading arguments. Antarctic ice cores show that rises in levels of CO2 have lagged 800 years behind temperature rises at specific times in the geological past. This, argued Durkin, +proves+ that CO2 cannot be responsible for global warming - instead global warming is responsible for increasing levels of CO2. But this was a huge howler.

What Durkin's film failed to explain was that the 800-year lag happened at the end of ice ages which occur about every 100,000 years. (See: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... -ice-cores)

Scientists believe that the end of an ice age is likely triggered when the amount of heat reaching the Earth rises as a result of a periodic change in the Earth's orbit around the sun. Jeff Severinghaus, Professor of Geosciences at Scripps Institution of Oceanography, explains why the rise in CO2 initially lags behind the temperature rise:

"The reason has to do with the fact that the warmings take about 5000 years to be complete. The lag is only 800 years. All that the lag shows is that CO2 did not cause the first 800 years of warming, out of the 5000 year trend." (Real Climate, 'What does the lag of CO2 behind temperature in ice cores tell us about global warming?', December 3, 2005; http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... ice-cores/)

The best current explanation for the lag of 800 years is that this is how long it takes for CO2, absorbed by the ocean in an earlier warm period, to be "flushed out" at the end of an ice age. Once that CO2 has been released into the atmosphere its heat-trapping properties as a greenhouse gas lead to even stronger warming: an example of positive feedback. (See Caillon et al., 'Timing of Atmospheric CO2 and Antarctic Temperature Changes Across Termination III,' Science, 14 March 2003: Vol. 299. no. 5613, pp. 1728 - 1731)

Professor Severinghaus summarises:

"In other words, CO2 does not initiate the warmings, but acts as an amplifier once they are underway."

Durkin's analysis, then, was way off the mark.

The film's claim that solar activity might account for recent warming is also without credibility. In September 2006, the Times reported the latest findings from researchers writing in the top journal, Nature:

"Scientists have examined various proxies of solar energy output over the past 1,000 years and have found no evidence that they are correlated with today's rising temperatures. Satellite observations over the past 30 years have also turned up nothing. 'The solar contribution to warming... is negligible,' the researchers wrote in the journal Nature." (Anjana Ahuja, 'It's hot, but don't blame the Sun,' The Times, September 25, 2006)

The film's other scientific claims can be similarly dismissed. Carl Wunsch - who, as discussed, appeared in the film - comments:

"What we now have is an out-and-out propaganda piece, in which there is not even a gesture toward balance or explanation of why many of the extended inferences drawn in the film are not widely accepted by the scientific community. There are so many examples, it's hard to know where to begin, so I will cite only one: a speaker asserts, as is true, that carbon dioxide is only a small fraction of the atmospheric mass. The viewer is left to infer that means it couldn't really matter. But even a beginning meteorology student could tell you that the relative masses of gases are irrelevant to their effects on radiative balance. A director not intending to produce pure propaganda would have tried to eliminate that piece of disinformation." (http://ocean.mit.edu/~cwunsch/papersonl ... l4response)

For further help in understanding the weakness of the film's claims, see the following resources:

Real Climate, 'Swindled',
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... 3/swindled

Campaign Against Climate Change, including a rebuttal to the film by Sir John Houghton, who chairs the Scientific Assessment Working Group of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change: http://portal.campaigncc.org/node/1820

Royal Society: Facts and fictions about climate change:
http://www.royalsoc.ac.uk/page.asp?id=4761

"I Was Duped" - Déjà Vu?

Many readers will be aware that Durkin has previous 'form'. In 1997, Channel 4 broadcast his three-part series, Against Nature, which suggested present-day environmentalists were the true heirs of the Nazis. (See George Monbiot, 'The Revolution Has Been Televised,' The Guardian, December 18, 1997; http://www.monbiot.com/archives/1997/12 ... televised/)

Several interviewees who appeared in the film felt they had been misled about the programme-maker's agenda. Responding to complaints, the Independent Television Commission (ITC) found that the editing of interviews with four contributors had "distorted or misrepresented their known views". (Geoffrey Lean, 'Climate change: An inconvenient truth... for C4,' The Independent, March 11, 2007; http://news.independent.co.uk/environme ... 347526.ece)

In addition, the ITC found: "The interviewees had also been misled as to the content and purpose of the programmes when they agreed to take part." (Paul McCann, 'Channel 4 told to apologise to Greens,' The Independent, April 2, 1998)

Ten years on, it appears that history may have repeated itself. In his letter of complaint to the film-makers cited above, Carl Wunsch writes:

"I have some experience in dealing with TV and print reporters and do understand something of the ways in which one can be misquoted, quoted out of context, or otherwise misinterpreted. Some of that is inevitable in the press of time or space or in discussions of complicated issues. Never before, however, have I had an experience like this one. My appearance in the 'Global Warming Swindle' is deeply embarrassing, and my professional reputation has been damaged. I was duped---an uncomfortable position in which to be.

"At a minimum, I ask that the film should never be seen again publicly with my participation included. Channel 4 surely owes an apology to its viewers, and perhaps WAGTV owes something to Channel 4. I will be taking advice as to whether I should proceed to make some more formal protest." (http://ocean.mit.edu/~cwunsch/papersonl ... l4response)

Eight of the scientists in the film - John Christy, Paul Reiter, Richard Lindzen, Paul Driessen, Roy Spencer, Patrick Michaels, Fred Singer and Tim Ball - are linked to American neo-conservative and right-wing think-tanks, many of which have received tens of millions of dollars from Exxon.

Greenpeace provides a fascinating online 'map' detailing how Exxon funds these climate sceptics. Go to: http://www.exxonsecrets.org/index.php?mapid=831 (click 'Launch' then click 'skip intro')

In his book, Green Backlash, environmental journalist Andrew Rowell noted that Fred Singer has also attacked scientific and environmental stances on other green issues such as ozone, acid rain, automobile emissions and even whaling. Singer has worked for companies such as Exxon, Shell, Arco, Unocal and Sun.

According to the Environmental Research Foundation, a non-governmental organisation:

"For years, Singer was a professor at the University of Virginia where he was funded by energy companies to pump out glossy pamphlets pooh-poohing climate change." (Quoted, Sharon Beder, Global Spin, Green Books, 1997, p.94)

Rowell wrote that a quarter of Patrick Michaels' research funding was reportedly received from companies such as Edison Electric Institute, the largest utility trade association in America. Michaels' magazine, World Climate Review, was funded by the Western Fuel Association and a video produced by him was funded by coal companies and distributed by the Denver Coal Club. (Rowell, Green Backlash, Routledge, 1996, p.143)

Both Singer and Michaels represented the fossil fuel lobby's Global Climate Coalition and the Competitive Enterprise Institute, a leader in global warming scepticism.

Journalist Ross Gelbspan noted that in May 1995, Richard Lindzen and Patrick Michaels were hired as expert witnesses to testify on behalf of Western Fuels Association, a $400 million consortium of coal suppliers and coal-fired utilities. Gelbspan said of Lindzen:
"I don't know very many supporters of Mr Lindzen who are not in the pay of the fossil fuel lobby. Dr Lindzen himself, his research is publicly funded, but Dr Lindzen makes, as he told me, $2,500 a day consulting with fossil fuel interests, and that includes his consulting with OPEC, his consulting with the Australian coal industry, his consulting with the US coal industry and so forth. That's not to say Dr Lindzen doesn't believe what he says, but it is to say that he stands in very sharp distinction to really just about virtually all of the climate scientists around the world." (Tony Jones, 'Journalist puts global warming sceptics under the spotlight,' Australian Broadcasting Corporation, March 7, 2005; http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/ ... 318067.htm)

Journalist George Monbiot wrote of Philip Stott:

"Professor Stott is a retired biogeographer. Like almost all the prominent sceptics he has never published a peer-reviewed paper on climate change. But he has made himself available to dismiss climatologists' peer-reviewed work as the 'lies' of ecofundamentalists." (Monbiot, 'Beware the fossil fools,' The Guardian, April 27, 2004; http://environment.guardian.co.uk/clima ... 15,00.html)

Paul Driessen is a fellow at two right-wing think tanks in the US, which are part of the Wise Use movement. One of the think tanks is headed by Ron Arnold, who has spent the last twenty years attacking the environmental movement. His fellow director is a fundraiser for America's gun lobby. The list goes on...

By contrast, Greenpeace spokeswoman Mhairi Dunlop said her organisation had been interviewed by Durkin but none of the material had been included in the film:

"They interviewed us but I guess what we said didn't fit in with the [story] they were peddling." (McCandless, op. cit)

Following the film's broadcast, Professor Martin Rees, president of the Royal Society - the government-sponsored academy of sciences for the United Kingdom - has said that many factors contribute to global warming but it is clear that emissions of "greenhouse gases," particularly CO2, are to blame for most of the current temperature rise. Rees added:

"Those who promote fringe scientific views but ignore the weight of evidence are playing a dangerous game. They run the risk of diverting attention from what we can do to ensure the world's population has the best possible future." (Ibid)

On March 11 the Observer published a letter from a group of climate scientists responding to Durkin's film:

"This programme misrepresented the state of scientific knowledge on global warming, claiming climate scientists are presenting lies. This is an outrageous statement...

"We defend the right of people to be sceptical, but for C4 to imply that the thousands of scientists and published peer-reviewed papers, summarised in the recent international science assessment, are misguided or lying lacks scientific credibility and simply beggars belief." (Alan Thorpe, Natural Environment Research Council, Brian Hoskins, University of Reading, Jo Haigh, Imperial College London, Myles Allen, University of Oxford, Peter Cox, University of Exeter, Colin Prentice, QUEST Programme, letter to the Observer, Sunday March 11, 2007; http://observer.guardian.co.uk/letters/ ... 17,00.html)

Viewed from one perspective, Channel 4 has done a huge public disservice in spreading absurd and mendacious arguments guaranteed to generate confusion. This at a time when a fragile momentum is building on the need to take urgent action on the very real threat of catastrophic climate change.

But from another perspective it may well be that this film does for climate scepticism what Tony Blair's "dodgy dossiers" did for the pro-war movement ahead of the invasion of Iraq. Wildly distorted propaganda often does have a powerful initial impact. But stretched beyond a certain point of unreality, it also has a tendency to turn on, and bite, the propagandists.

Durkin's grandiose prediction that his film "will go down in history" will surely prove correct, although perhaps not for the reasons he imagined.

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Laatst gewijzigd door Sebastiaan op 03 apr 2007 11:56, 1 keer totaal gewijzigd.
De wereld is zoveel logischer en makkelijker te begrijpen zonder god dan met, dus waarom moeilijk doen als het makkelijk kan?

mouvement
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Lid geworden op: 29 jan 2007 18:13

Bericht door mouvement » 18 mar 2007 19:46

http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFoss ... age277.gif

inderdaad niks geks aan deze temperatuur op aarde, best koud eigenlijk :D .
ook inderdaad geen verband tussen co2 en temperatuur
het feit dat er DNA bestaat is al een onomstotelijk bewijs voor evolutie.

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doctorwho
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Bericht door doctorwho » 03 apr 2007 08:37

Ik heb even getwijfeld of dit nu onder an unconvenient truth thuishoord of toch op deze draad. Vanwege de loer die ons gedraaid wordt komt swindle meer in de buurt.

Ik heb al enkele jaren mijn bedenkingen tegen zogenaamde hybride auto's die vanwege hun vermeende milieuvriendelijkheid in ons land met fors fiscaal voordeel verkrijgbaar zijn. Het maakt hierbij zoals met de introductie van de nieuwe lexus hybride blijkt niet uit of het aantal gereden km per liter brandstof 12 of 20 is. Zolang het maar hybride is.

Maar dit slechts ter introductie van onderstaand artikeltje.

Current issue: March 28, 2007 Central Connecticut State University

March 7, 2007

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage
By Chris Demorro
Staff Writer



The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.
Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

“The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
Wie atheïsme een geloof noemt kan tot niets bekeerd worden
The person who calls atheism a religion can be converted to nothing

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Raven
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Bericht door Raven » 03 apr 2007 09:05

Is het weleens bij jullie opgekomen dat veel "wetenschap" op dit gebied betaald wordt door bedrijven die er alle belang bij hebben om de boel de bagataliseren ?
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doctorwho
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Bericht door doctorwho » 03 apr 2007 09:41

Raven schreef:Is het weleens bij jullie opgekomen dat veel "wetenschap" op dit gebied betaald wordt door bedrijven die er alle belang bij hebben om de boel de bagataliseren ?
Het omgekeerde is evenzeer waar volgens mij. Wat een geweldige opdracht wordt het ten uitvoer brengen van het rekening rijden :idea:
Wie atheïsme een geloof noemt kan tot niets bekeerd worden
The person who calls atheism a religion can be converted to nothing

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Bericht door mouvement » 03 apr 2007 10:10

sterke aanhangers van de theorie door de mens opwarmende aarde gebruiken het argument dat de overheid en zij geen enkel belang er bij hebben om de mensen bang te maken over een mogelijk opwarmende aarde door de mens maar ik heb even nagedacht.

voordelen
1. onafhankelijkheid van het midden-oosten en dus een back-up voor een eventuele grotere oorlog.
2. de olievoorraad slinkt en het wordt steeds duurder op de lange termijn om olie op te pompen uit steeds diepere reservoirs en onderzeese olievelden, dit is niet iets tastbaars behalve dat de olieprijzen op den duur omhoog gaan, aan de andere kant kun je wel zien dat de temperatuur omhoog gaat en hebben ze er dus een sterk(er) punt erbij om zuinig met de energie om te gaan.
het feit dat er DNA bestaat is al een onomstotelijk bewijs voor evolutie.

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